(Mishnah): The times for bringing wood, of Kohanim and the nation are nine. On the first of Nisan is Bnei Arach ben Yehudah. On the 20th of Tamuz is Bnei David ben Yehudah. On the fifth of Av is Bnei Par'osh ben Yehudah. On the seventh [of Av] is Bnei Yonadav ben Rechev. On the 10th is Bnei San'ah ben Binyamin. On the 15th is Bnei Zesu ben Yehudah, and with them Kohanim, Leviyim and anyone who erred about his Shevet;

Bnei Gonvei Eli and Bnei Kotz'ei Ketzi'os are on the 20th. Bnei Pachas Mo'av are on the 20th of Elul. Bnei Adin ben Yehudah are on the first of Teves, and on it Bnei Par'osh a second time.

On the first of Teves there was no Ma'amad, for there was Hallel, Musaf and Korban Etzim.

(Gemara) Question: Why [did our Mishnah list] times for bringing wood, of Kohanim and the nation?

Answer: When Yisrael ascended from [Bavel], they did not find wood in the chamber. These [families] went and donated their wood and gave it over to the Tzibur, and they used it to offer Korbanos Tzibur;

Nevi'im among them stipulated that even if the chamber is full of wood, and these families volunteered their own, the Korban will be offered only from theirs first.

(R. Acha): This (the Tzibur uses what individuals volunteer) is like R. Yosah, for R. Yosah says that even one who wants, he may volunteer [in Shemitah] to guard [grain for the Omer or Shtei ha'Lechem] for free. (Chachamim forbid, lest he not properly give it over to the Tzibur).

Rebuttal (R. Yosi citing R. Ila): It is like everyone. What do [R. Yosah and Chachamim] argue about - the Korban itself, but Machshirei (things needed for the sake of the) Korban, all agree that it changes from a Korban Yachid to a Korban Tzibur. (GEVURAS ARI 28a - all agree that mid'Oraisa, Machshirim change automatically. Mid'Rabanan, one must be Moser them to the Tzibur. R. Acha holds that Chachamim are concerned lest he not be Moser properly, just like for the Omer. R. Ila holds that Chachamim are concerned only for a Korban itself, which requires Mesirah mid'Oraisa.)

(Beraisa): If a woman made a Kesones for her son (a Kohen), she must hand it over to the Tzibur [before he may serve in it].

(R. Acha): This is like R. Yosah, for R. Yosah says that even one who wants may volunteer to guard for free.

Rebuttal (R. Yosi citing R. Ila): It is like everyone. What do they argue about - the Korban itself, but Machshirei Korban, all agree that it changes from a Korban Yachid to a Korban Tzibur.

Question #1 (against R. Acha - Beraisa in Megilas Ta'anis): Those days [of Korban Etzim] apply (are a Yom Tov for those families, and they may not fast on them) at a time of Korban (while the Mikdash stands) and not at a time of Korban;

R. Yosah says, they apply only at a time of Korban. (All agree that there were times of Korban Etzim, when we accept from individuals!)

Question #2 (Beraisa - R. Lazar bei R. Yosi): We (my family) were from Bnei San'ah ben Binyamin. Tish'ah b'Av fell on Shabbos, and we postponed it to Motza'ei Shabbos. We fasted, but did not complete [the fast, for the 10th is a Yom Tov for us. The fast applies only at a time of Churban. Since it was a Yom Tov even at a time of Churban, we must say that when they brought, it was a proper Korban Tzibur. We explained this Sugya like HA'GAON RAV C. KANIEVSKY, SHLITA]

Question: What are Bnei Gonvei Eli and Bnei Kotz'ei Ketzi'os?

Answer: When [Tosefta 3:7, according to Gra's text - Malchei Yavan set up guards to stop people from bringing wood for the Ma'arachah and Bikurim, like] Yarav'am ben Nevat set up guards on the roads, and did not allow Yisrael to ascend to Yerushalayim [for the Regel], whoever was Kosher and feared sin in that generation, he brought his Bikurim and put them in a basket and covered it with dried figs. He took the Eli (a large piece of wood to crush the figs) and put the basket on his shoulder and the Eli in his hand;

When he came to the Mishmar (where the guard stood, the guard) asked "where are you going?'' He said "I am going only to make from these dried figs one ring of pressed figs with this Eli in my hand.'' Once he passed the Mishmar, he crowned them (adorned them with Peros) and brought them up to Yerushalayim.

What are Bnei Salmiyei ha'Nesutzasi? Anyone who volunteered wood and logs for the Ma'arachah, he brought wood and made like rungs, and made like a ladder and put it on his shoulder;

Note: The Targum on Rus 4:20 connotes that they descended from Salmon ben Nachson, the father of Bo'az.

When he came to where the guard was, he asked "where are you going?'' He said "I am going only to bring two chicks from this dovecote in front of me with this ladder on my shoulder.'' Once he passed the guard, he dissembled it and brought them up to Yerushalayim. (CHASDEI DAVID on Tosefta 3:7 - since they were Moser Nefesh to bring wood, surely a day was fixed for them! The Bavli connotes that they are Bnei Gonvei Eli; they merited two names for Mesiras Nefesh for two Mitzvos.)

Since they were Moser Nefesh for the Mitzvah, they merited to acquire a good name in the world. About them it says "Zecher Tzadik li'Vrachah.''

(Mishnah): Five things occurred to our ancestors on the 17th of Tamuz, and five on Tish'ah b'Av. On the 17th of Tamuz the Luchos were broken, the Tamid was Batel, the city (Yerushalayim) was breached, Apostomus burned the Torah, and an idol was set up in the Heichal;

On Tish'ah b'Av it was decreed on our ancestors that they will not enter Eretz [Yisrael]. the first and second Mikdashos were destroyed, Beitar was captured, and the city (Yerushalayim) was plowed.

(Gemara): It is written "va'Yishkon Kevod Hash-m Al Har Sinai va'Ychasehu he'Anan Sheshes Yamim va'Yikra El Moshe ba'Yom ha'Shevi'i'', and Moshe ascended. Shevi'i - it was after Aseres ha'Dibros, and the beginning of 40 days [on Har Sinai].

Moshe told them "I will spend 40 days on the mountain.'' Once the 40th day came and he did not come, immediately "va'Yar ha'Am Ki Boshesh Moshe Laredes Min ha'Har'';

Once six hours came and he did not come, immediately "va'Yakhel ha'Am Al Aharon va'Yomru Elav Kum Ase Lanu Elohim Asher Yelchu Lefaneinu...'';

"Va'Ydaber Hash-m El Moshe Lech Red Ki Shiches Amcha...'' "Va'Yishma Yehoshua Es Kol ha'Am b'Re'o va'Yomer El Moshe Kol Milchamah ba'Machaneh.''

Moshe said, a man who is destined to be the leader over 600,000 people does not know how to distinguish one voice from another?!

"Va'Yomer Ein Kol Anos Gevurah v'Ein Kol Anos Chalushah Kol Anos Anochi Shome'a'' - R. Yosi said, [this means] I hear the voice of praise of idolatry.

(R. Yudan citing R. Yosah): There is no generation that does not have a small measure of Chet ha'Egel.

"Va'Yhi Ka'asher Karav El ha'Machaneh va'Yar Es ha'Egel veha'Mecholos'' - R. Chilkiyah said in the name of R. Acha, this teaches that one may not judge through estimation. (Even though Moshe sensed that he heard the voice of praise of idolatry, he did not break the Luchos until he saw.)

Moshe expounded a Kal v'Chomer. Pesach is a single Mitzvah, and it says "Kol Ben Nechar Lo Yochal Bo.'' The Torah, in which all Mitzvos are included, all the more so (Bnei Yisrael, who are idolaters, are not worthy of it)!

(Beraisa - R. Yishmael): "Va'Yichar Af Moshe va'Yishlech mi'Yadav Es ha'Luchos va'Yshaber Osam Tachas ha'Har'' - Hash-m told Moshe to break them, for it says "va'Echtov Al ha'Luchos Es ha'Devarim Asher Hayu Al ha'Luchos ha'Rishonim Asher Shibarta'' - [Hash-m] told him, you did well to break them.

(R. Shmuel bar Nachman citing R. Yonason): The Luchos were six Tefachim long and three Tefachim wide, and Moshe was holding two Tefachim and Hash-m was holding two Tefachim and a space of two Tefachim [that no one was holding] were in the middle. (Obviously, this is a mere parable for something deep, and cannot be taken literally. KORBAN HA'EDAH explains that the six Tefachim allude to six Sefiros. Moshe held two due to his Karnei Hod, and he overpowered due to his Midah of Netzach. Etz Yosef (on Shemos Rabah 47:6) explains that Hash-m held the secrets of Torah that cannot be revealed to people, Moshe held what was given to be properly explained, and in the middle was what man has a small understanding of it. SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL (Halachah 8) explains that Hash-m told Moshe "descend'', i.e. without the Luchos, for He will destroy Yisrael. The two Tefachim "space'' was opportunity for Moshe to pray to save Yisrael.)

When Yisrael did that act (Chet ha'Egel), Hash-m wanted to grab them from Moshe's hands. Moshe overpowered and grabbed them from Him, and the verse praises him at the end - "ul'Chol ha'Yad ha'Chazakah'' - great is the strength of the hand that overpowered Me.

Note: What did Moshe gain through this? In any case he broke them! R. Moshe Shapiro Ztz''l said that Moshe broke them "l'Eineihem'', so Yisrael will see that Torah is being taken from them. Further, all five tragedies of the 17th of Tamuz are levels of Torah being taken from Yisrael, and the five of Tish'ah b'Av are levels of Eretz Yisrael being taken from Bnei Yisrael.)

(R. Yochanan citing R. Yosah bar Abaye): The Luchos wanted to fly. Moshe held them - "va'Esfos bi'Shnei ha'Luchos.''

(Beraisa, citing R. Nechemyah): The writing itself flew.

(R. Ezra citing R. Yehudah bei R. Simon): The Luchos weighed 40 Sa'im, and the writing held them up. Once the writing flew away, they were heavy on Moshe's hands, and they fell and were broken.

Note: Sa'im is a measure of volume, i.e. a Mikveh, which is one by one by three Amos! The Yerushalmi did not give the third dimension of the Luchos. Surely it was no more than their length (six Tefachim). The Bavli says that it was six Tefachim. If so, the Luchos were a sixth of 40 Sa'im. Perhaps the Yerushalmi means that their weight was equal to that of 40 Sa'im of water. Sifri Beha'aloscha 101 expounds that also the first Luchos were of sapphire. Sapphire is almost four times as dense as water. If so, they weighed almost two thirds of 40 Sa'im of water. This is if an Amah is six Tefachim. According to Tana'im who say that it is five, the Luchos were more than a quarter of 40 Sa'im, and weighed slightly more than 40 Sa'im of water.

(Mishnah): The Tamid was Batel.

(R. Simon citing R. Yehoshua ben Levi): In the days of Malchus Yavan, [people inside Yerushalayim] used to lower two baskets of gold to [people outside], and they brought up two lambs (those outside bought two lambs with the gold, to offer for the Temidim);

Once, they lowered two baskets of gold, and they brought up two goats. At that time, Hash-m enlightened their eyes, and they found two lambs in the chamber of lambs.

Regarding that time, R. Yehudah ben Aba testified about the morning Tamid, that it may be offered at four hours.

(R. Levi): Also in the days of this evil Malchus (Edom) they used to lower to them two baskets of gold, and they would raise for them two lambs;

At the end, they lowered to them two baskets of gold, and they raised for them two pigs. They did not reach half [the height of] the wall until a pig stuck its hoof [into the wall], and [Eretz Yisrael] shook 400 Parsa'os (HA'GAON RAV C. KANIEVSKY, SHLITA). At that time, Aveiros caused that the Tamid was Batel, and the Mikdash was destroyed.

(Mishnah): The city was breached [on the 17th of Tamuz].

Question: The verse says "on the ninth of the month, the city was breached'', and you say so?!

Answer (R. Tanchum bar Chanilai): There are mistaken calculations here. (R. Moshe Shapiro Ztz''l - surely an event occurred on the ninth, and a newspaper reporter would have called this the day of the breach. Normally Chachamim, and all the more so Nevi'im, see deeper than this. Now they did not - "Ein Torah Gam Nevi'eha Lo Matz'u Chazon me'Hashem'' (Eichah 2:9). Hash-m allowed the verse to be written according to their mistake, i.e. a superficial understanding.)

Support - Question: "In the 12th year, on the first of the month, Hash-m spoke to me, saying 'Ben Adam, since Tzur said about Yerushalayim 'he'Ach''" - what is 'on the first'?

If you will say that it is the first of Av, [the Mikdash] was not burned yet (why did Tzur rejoice?)!

If you will say that it is the first of Elul, in one day and a night a messenger can leave Yerushalayim and come to Tzur! (There is no reason why they delayed three weeks to rejoice!)

Note: Bava Metzi'a 28a connotes that it is 15 days journey from Yerushalayim to the end of Eretz Yisrael, i.e. for people walking during the day. If a messenger on a horse goes eight times as fast, he can reach Chutz la'Aretz in less than one day and a night.

Answer: Rather, there are mistaken calculations here. (People thought that it was Rosh Chodesh Av, just like they thought that the city was breached eight days earlier than it really was.)

R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish [argued about this]. R. Yochanan said, [a parable for this is] a king who was sitting and making calculations. They came and told him "your son was captured!'', and his calculations were messed up. He said, this will be the start of the calculations.

Reish Lakish said, [a parable for this is] a king who was sitting and making calculations. They came and told him "your son was captured and killed!'' He said, this will be the start of the calculations.

Question (R. Mana): It is fine that [his calculations] were messed up [due to tragedies] of the past - will you say so for the future?! (Yechezkel wrote that it was the first of the month before he knew about the Churban!)

Observation: Both according to the opinion that [the city was breached.] on the ninth of the month, and the opinion that it was the 17th, how much is between [the breach and the Churban]? There are 21 days from when the city was breached until Churban Beis ha'Mikdash.

(R. Avunah): A Siman for the matter is "Makel Shaked Ani Ro'eh'' - just like an almond tree, from when sends out flowers until it finishes its Peros is 21 days, so from the day that the city was breached until Churban of the Bayis was 21 days;

The one who says [that the breach was] on the ninth of the month, the Churban of the Bayis was on the first of Av. The one who says [that the breach was] on the 17th, Churban ha'Bayis was on Tish'ah b'Av.

(Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Yochai): R. Akiva, my Rebbi, used to expound "Ko Amar Hash-m Tzevakos Tzom ha'Revi'i v'Tzom ha'Chamishi v'Tzom ha'Shevi'i v'Tzom ha'Asiri...'' - Tzom ha'Revi'i is the 17th of Tamuz.

Tzom ha'Revi'i - this is the 17th of Tamuz, on which the Luchos were broken, the Tamid was Batel, the city was breached, Apostomus burned the Torah, and he set up an idol in the Heichal;

Tzom ha'Chamishi is Tish'ah b'Av, on which the first and second Mikdashos were destroyed. Tzom ha'Shevi'i is Tishrei 3, on which Gedalyah ben Achikam was killed;

Tzom ha'Asiri is Asarah b'Teves, on which Melech Bavel made a siege around Yerushalayim;

Source: "Va'Yhi Davar Hash-m Elai ba'Shanah ha'Teshi'is ba'Chodesh ha'Asiri be'Asor la'Chodesh Leimor Ben Adam Kesav Lecha Es Shem ha'Yom Es Etzem ha'Yom ha'Zeh Samach Melech Bavel El Yerushalayim.''

And I (R. Shimon) say that Tzom ha'Asiri is the fifth of Teves, the day that word [of the Churban] came to Galus (Bavel);

Source: "Va'Yhi bi'Shtei Esre Shanah ba'Asiri ba'Chamishah la'Chodesh l'Galuseinu Ba Elai ha'Palit mi'Yrushalayim Leimor Huksah ha'Ir.''

Remark: However, in Yehudah they fast on [the day of] the action (the siege, Asarah b'Teves), and in Galus (Bavel) on [the day of] the report (Chamishah b'Teves - MASA D'YERUSHALAYIM).

R. Akiva expounds first last (Tzom ha'Revi'i, Tzom ha'Chamishi and Tzom ha'Shevi'i are due to the breaching of the city, the Churban, and the murder of Gedalyah) and last first (Tzom ha'Asiri is for the siege, which was before all of these. The verse lists the fasts based on the order of months);

And I (R. Shimon) expound first first and last last (first was the breach, then the Churban, then the murder of Gedalyah, and last was the report of the Churban. The verse is based on the order of months, and also the order of when the events occurred - Rashi Rosh Hashanah 18b).