(Mishnah): Apostomus burned the Torah.

Question: Where did he burn it?

Answer #1 (R. Acha): It was at the bridge of Lud.

Answer #2 (R. Acha): It was at the bridge of Tarlusa.

(Mishnah): And he set up an idol in the Heichal.

Alternative text: Some teach "[an idol] was set up [in the Heichal].''

Consequence: The one who teaches "was set up'' holds that it refers to Menasheh's idol. The one who teaches "he set up'' holds that it refers to Apostomus' idol.

Question: When didn't they fix [the 17th of Tamuz] to be a Ta'anis [like Tish'ah b'Av, to forbid also the night, and even when the Mikdash stands]?

Answer #1 (Chinena, the father of Bar Yanatah, citing R. Banyei): The majority of the Tzibur did not accept it on themselves.

Answer #2 (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): Everything that happened on this returned, and everything that happened on this did not return.

Note: It is difficult to explain "everything.'' KORBAN HA'EDAH - the Churban occurred twice on Tish'ah b'Av; no tragedy happened twice on the 17th of Tamuz. This is unlike we said above, that both times there were 17 days between the breach and the Churban! One could explain oppositely (like ALEI TAMAR), that the tragedies of Tish'ah b'Av did not return, i.e. they persist. (Even though Bayis Sheni was built, the Shechinah did not rest there, like in Bayis Rishon. However, also the second Luchos were unlike the first Luchos!)

Answer #3 (R. Levi): It is written "Asher Ya'aseh Osam ha'Adam v'Chai Bahem'', and a person's sight returns [after a full day fast] only after 40 days. (Therefore, they did not decree two full day fasts within 40 days of each other.)

Source: (Our Mishnah said that on Tish'ah b'Av it was decreed on our ancestors that they will not enter Eretz Yisrael.) It says "va'Yhi b'Shanah ha'Shenis ba'Chodesh ha'Sheni b'Esrim ba'Chodesh...'', and it says "va'Yis'u mi'Har Hash-m Derech Sheloshes Yamim.'' (This ended on Iyar 23);

(R. Zecharyah, the father-in-law (or son-in-law) of R. Levi): [Bnei Yisrael were anxious to leave Har Sinai, like] these children who flee school and go out to the villages.

That same day (Iyar 23) they lusted [to eat meat]. They ate there "Ad Chodesh Yamim Ad Asher Yetzei me'Apchem'', and seven days [during which Yisrael waited] for Miryam "va'Tisager mi'Chutz la'Machaneh'' (and after that they sent the Meraglim on Sivan 30);

There were 40 days of the Meraglim [in Eretz Yisrael] - "va'Yashuvu mi'Tur ha'Aretz mi'Ketz Arba'im Yom va'Yelchu va'Yavo'u El Moshe v'El Aharon...''

They found them engaging in laws of Chalah and Orlah. They said to them, you will not enter the land, and you engage in laws of Chalah and Orlah?!

Immediately, "va'Tisa Kol ha'Edah va'Yitnu Es Kolam va'Yivku ha'Am ba'Laylah Hu.'' [Hash-m] said [about] them, you cried in front of Me a vain crying - in the future, you will cry a real crying - "Bacho Sivcheh ba'Laylah.''

(R. Shimon ben Yochai): It says "va'Yishma Moshe Es ha'Am Bocheh l'Mishpechosav...'' - due to six Arayos (forbidden relatives) that Moshe forbade to them.

Moshe said to [the Meraglim] "even if [it is like you said], what did you see?'' They told him "Eretz Ocheles Yoshveha Hi'' - every city that we entered, we found dead people.

[Hash-m] said [about] them, with the good that I did for you, you said "Eretz Ocheles Yoshveha Hi''?! Every city that they entered, the greatest of the city died. While they were engaged with him, the city wailed him, and [the Meraglim] left, and no one knew about them.

And not only this, rather, [also] you said "va'Nehi b'Eineinu ka'Chagavim v'Chen Hayinu b'Eineihem'' - do you know how I made you in their eyes?! (Surely you do not! You merely intended to speak bad about Eretz Yisrael.)

(Reish Lakish): They spoke against Hash-m - "Ki Chazak Hu Mimenu'' - they said, it is as if He cannot [overcome] them.

(R. Levi citing R. Chama bar Chanina): "L'Kol ha'Mulah Gadlah'' - due to the great voice that you said (heeding the evil Meraglim), you lit [the Mikdash] it on fire, and caused its branches (your children) to wander (in the Midbar for 40 years).

(R. Yosi - Beraisa): The day that the Mikdash was destroyed, it was Motza'ei Shabbos (Sunday), it was Motza'ei (the year after) Shemitah, and the Mishmar of Yehoyariv was serving on Tish'ah b'Av, and similarly in [Churban of Bayis] Sheni.

In both [Mikdashos at the time of the Churban] the Leviyim were standing on the Duchan and saying "va'Yashev Aleihem Es Onam uv'Ra'asam Yatzmisem Yatzmisem Hash-m Elokeinu.'' (Even though this is the Shir for Wednesday, Hash-m caused that they said it at the time.)

Version #1 - Question (Reish Lakish, to R. Yochanan): Do we sing Shirah with Nesachim?

Answer (R. Yochanan): We learn from this [Beraisa, that we do] - in both, the Leviyim were standing on the Duchan and saying "va'Yashev Aleihem Es Onam...''

Version #2 (R. Avahu): R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish argued about this. R. Yochanan said that we sing Shirah with Nesachim, and Reish Lakish said that we do not sing Shirah with Nesachim.

Question (R. Yochanan, against Reish Lakish): It was taught that in both, the Leviyim were standing on the Duchan and saying "va'Yashev Aleihem Es Onam...''

Question (Reish Lakish): How do you learn from there?

Answer (R. Yochanan): Since these [that they offered now] were Nesachim [from last Wednesday's Korban, which they were not able to bring until now], this is the [proper] time for the Shir [of Wednesday].

Answer (for Reish Lakish): R. Yochanan says that [they sang] the Shir for the [correct] day. Reish Lakish says [that they sang] the Shir of yesterday (i.e. Hash-m caused that they sang the wrong song, so we cannot learn from there. We explained according to NO'AM YERUSHALMI.)

Opinion #1 (R. Levi): (The Mishmar Yehoyariv was nicknamed Yehoyariv Meiron Mesarbeyei. What is the reason?) Yehoyariv - overpowered; Meiron - [over] the city; Mesarbeyei - [Hash-m] was Moser (handed over) His house to the haters.

Opinion #2 (R. Berachyah): Yehoyariv - Kah Heriv (Hash-m quarreled) with His children, for they Maru and SaRVu (rebelled against and disobeyed) Him.

[Yedayah was nicknamed] Yedayah Amok Tziporim - Yada Kah (Hash-m knew) a deep counsel in their hearts, and exiled them like birds. (We explained this according to Ra'avan's Perush on Kinah 10/11 of Tish'ah b'Av "Eichah Yashvah Chavatzeles...'', written by R. Eliezer ha'Kalir - SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL.)

(Mishnah): Beitar was captured.

Rebbi used to expound 24 tragedies at the time of the Churban. "Bala Hash-m v'Lo Chamal'' [alludes to them]. R. Yochanan used to expound 60.

Question: Does R. Yochanan [expound] more than Rebbi?!

Answer: Rebbi was closer to Churban Beis ha'Mikdash, and there were elders who remembered the Churban when he expounded they cried, [so Rebbi ceased expounding] and they became silent and ceased crying (PNEI MOSHE).

(R. Yehudah ben R. Ila'i): My Rebbi Baruch used to expound "ha'Kol Kol Yakov veha'Yadayim Yedei Esav'' - the voice of Yakov (Bnei Yisrael) screamed due to what the hands of Esav (Romi) did to him in Beitar.

(R. Shimon ben Yochai): Akiva, my Rebbi, used to expound "Darach Kochav mi'Yakov'' - Darach Koziva mi'Yakov (he thought that Ben Koziva (Bar Kochva) was Mashi'ach).

When R. Akiva saw Bar Koziva, he would say "this is Melech ha'Mashi'ach''! R. Yochanan ben Tursa told him "Akiva - your jaws will be filled with grass (many years after your death), and Mashi'ach will not come yet!''

Note: One of the Rambam's 13 principals of Emunah is that Mashi'ach can come any day! Sanhedrin 98a says that there is a time before which Mashi'ach must come. If Yisrael merit, he can come earlier, and he will have extra qualities. Seder Mishnah Al ha'Rambam (Hilchos Sanhedrin 11:3) - one such quality is ability to judge via Ru'ach ha'Kodesh, without witnesses. R. Akiva expounded that the Ketz had come, so Mashi'ach need not have this ability. R. Yochanan ben Tursa expounded that the Ketz is much later. Even if you (R. Akiva) will live to 120 (like he did); we cannot accept a Mashi'ach without this ability until many years later.