BECHOROS 7 (24 Cheshvan) - dedicated by Dr. Moshe and Rivkie Snow in memory of Rivkie's father, the Manostrishtcher Rebbi, Hagaon Rav Yitzchak Yoel ben Harav Gedaliah Aharon Rabinowitz Ztz"l, Rav of Kehilas Nachalas Yehoshua in Canarsie, NY. A personification of the Torah scholar of old, the Ukranian-born Rebbi lived most of his life in the United States where his warm ways changed many lives.


THE HETER FOR MILK AND EGGS [Ever Min ha'Chai :milk and eggs]




6b - Question (Rav Acha): Chachamim learn (to forbid camel milk) from "Gamal... Gamal." R. Shimon learns from "Es ha'Gamal." If not, we would permit;


Why do we not learn from Sheratzim (that what comes from something forbidden is forbidden)?


(Beraisa): "Ha'Teme'im" forbids their brine, soup (the water in which they were cooked), and Kipah (spices and shredded meat that accumulate at the bottom of the pot).


Answer #2: Normally, anything that comes from a living being is forbidden. Since the Torah permits milk, one might have thought that it permits even milk of Teme'im. Therefore, the verse is needed.


Question: What is the source that Tahor milk is permitted?


Answer #1: We learn from "v'Dei Chalev Izim l'Lachmecha l'Lechem Beisecha v'Chayim l'Na'arosecha" (that one may subsist on milk)!


Rejection: Perhaps the verse teaches that one will sell the milk (to Nochrim)!


Answer #2: "(David brought) v'Es Aseres Charitzei he'Chalav" (to the leader of 1000 men in the war. Surely, it may be eaten!)


Question: Perhaps he brought it to him to sell!


Answer: In war, one does not sell food to the enemy!


Answer #3: "Eretz Zavas Chalav u'Devash" - Eretz Yisrael would not be praised for something forbidden to eat!


Answer #4: "U'Lechu Shivru b'Lo Chesef uv'Lo Mechir Yayin v'Chalav."


7b (Rabanan): Chali (pieces of flesh that fall from the rump) of a Yachmur (antelope) are Beitzim (testicles or eggs). They are forbidden.


(Rav Safra): No, they come from semen of an Ayal (gazelle. It mates with an antelope, and some of the semen falls out and hardens. Since it was originally putrid, it is permitted.)


Chulin 140a - Question: If a Tahor bird sits on Tamei eggs, why is there no Mitzvah to send it?


Answer: "Tikach Lach" - the Mitzvah applies when you may take the eggs to eat, not (only) for your dog.


(a) Rishonim


Rosh (1:5): Milk is like Ever Min ha'Chai, and the Torah permitted it. We learn that milk of Tahor Nesachim is permitted from "Eretz Zavas Chalav", or from "u'Lechu Shivru b'Lo Chesef uv'Lo Mechir Yayin v'Chalav." Eggs of Tahor birds are permitted, even though they come from a living being. We learn from "Tikach Lach." - the Mitzvah applies when you may take the eggs to eat, not (only) for your dog. Even though two verses permit things that come from a living being, it is considered a Chidush, since they are not in the same matter.


Tosfos (Chulin 64a DH she'Im): Why do we need "Bas ha'Ya'anah" to forbid Tamei eggs? Bahag says that we need it only to permit Tahor eggs! One might have thought that anything from a living animal is Asur, like it says in Bechoros. It seems that we learn from Tikach Lach to permit Tahor eggs. One might have thought that since normally anything from a living animal is Asur, and here the Torah permitted it, it permitted even Tamei eggs. We would say that the verse exempts a Tahor bird on Tamei chicks. "Bas ha'Ya'anah" teaches unlike this. We say like this in Bechoros regarding milk.


Tosfos (6b DH Rotev): Why do not we need a verse to forbid gravy? We should know this from Mishras, which teaches that Ta'am k'Ikar (if an Isur can be tasted in a mixture, the mixture is forbidden like the Isur) for all Isurim (Pesachim 44a)! I answer that primarily, the verse comes to forbid their brine. Indeed, we already know that the gravy is forbidden. The verse forbids drinking a melted Sheretz. The verse of Sheratzim forbids eating them. "Ha'Temei'im" teaches that drinking is included. However, the Gemara connotes that it forbids the brine like the Sheretz, for we ask that the verse should likewise forbid (camel) milk. We must say that they are equally reasonable to learn (so we learn both). However, we would not know that drinking is like eating. We could have said that the Torah forbids only after he congealed the brine and ate it.


Tosfos (Chulin 99b DH She'ani): Brine of Tamei fish is forbidden only mid'Rabanan. The Torah forbade liquids only from Sheratzim and Tamei animals. However, it is difficult how Rava brought a proof from "ha'Temei'im" to forbid brine of a Tereifah animal.




Shulchan Aruch (YD 81:5): Milk of Tahor Behemos and Chayos is permitted.


Pleisi (7 DH Ach): If a Nochri has many milking animals, one may sell to him even if it is forbidden to him. Avraham assumed that his guests were Nochrim, and he gave milk and butter to them. Surely they did not have their own at the time! The Gemara asked why the Tana'im needed verses to forbid camel milk, and did not learn from "ha'Temei'im" written regarding Sheratzim. From Sheratzim, we learn only that liquids from Isurim are Asur. The Hava Amina to forbid milk due to Ever Min ha'Chai is due to "ha'Temei'im", which teaches that the liquid is like its source. Had the Torah not written "ha'Temei'im", surely milk would be permitted. It is no worse than milk of a camel, which would be permitted if not for "ha'Gamal"! If so, "ha'Temei'im", which was taught after Matan Torah, was only for the sake of Yisrael. The liquids are not forbidden to Nochrim, even milk of Ever Min ha'Chai.


Tevas Gomeh (Bereishis 18:8): Before Matan Torah, milk was considered Ever Min ha'Chai, and it was forbidden to Nochrim. How could Avraham feed it to Nochrim? He was considered a Yisrael. Lifnei Iver applies even if it is permitted to the one who causes another to transgress!


Answer #1 (Tevas Gomeh): R. Yochanan holds that the Torah permits Basar from a living being to Nochrim, and also milk. Indeed, this is difficult for Reish Lakish.


Answer #2 (R. Akiva Eiger, brought in the Sefer of his Chidushin to Sanhedrin, p.136): In any case it is permitted. According to the law of Yisrael, it is not Ever Min ha'Chai. A Ben No'ach is not commanded about Lifnei Iver. Alternatively, since it will be permitted to Yisrael after Matan Torah, it is unreasonable to be stringent like the law of Yisrael beforehand.


Note: R. Akiva Eiger holds that Avraham merely chose to be stringent like the laws of Yisrael. Tevas Gomeh's question presumed that he had the law of Yisrael. The Rambam (Hilchos Melachim 9:11) forbids Basar Min ha'Chai to Nochrim!


Suggestion: The Torah permitted milk even to Nochrim. Avraham thought that his guests were Aravim, and he served to them "butter and milk." Also milk comes from a living animal. Just like the Torah permitted milk to Nochrim, also eggs are permitted!


Rejection (Chasam Sofer): If so, why did the Gemara need to learn from verses from Nevi'im and Kesuvim to permit milk? Also the Limud from "Eretz Zavas Chalav" is not solid. Perhaps it is in order to sell the milk! The answer given is weak. Why didn't the Gemara say that since the Torah taught that eggs are permitted, the same applies to milk! We can ask similarly against Tosfos, who invented a Limud to teach that eggs are permitted. Why don't we say that just like milk is permitted, also eggs? The Gemara permits Chali. The Rishonim explain that it is a mere secretion. Rashi says that Rabanan thought to forbid due to Ever Min ha'Chai. Why didn't we learn from milk and eggs to permit? Why was a new reason needed? Rather, the Heter is only where it was given. We do not extrapolate. Similarly, the Torah permitted to Nochrim only milk, but not eggs. It is difficult to say that since the Torah did not distinguish regarding Yisrael (and permitted both of them), also regarding Nochrim we do not distinguish. We do not permit Isurim based on such reasoning.


Suggestion: Eggs are a liquid. One merely drinks them. The Torah forbade to Nochrim eating Ever Min ha'Chai, but not drinking. A Drashah forbids brine and gravy to Yisrael. We have no source to forbid to Nochrim, like the Pleisi says.


Rejection (Chasam Sofer): This would not explain why Nochrim may eat roasted or cooked eggs, which are solids. Tosfos (6b) and Teshuvos say that liquids that come from Isur are unlike the Isur only before they are congealed. Once they are congealed, they are like solids. If so, the same applies to a hardened egg. Also, it seems that even when it is raw, it is a food, and not a liquid. The Torah permitted (Nochrim) only to eat it raw. Regarding milk, a verse permits even if it was solidified. Perhaps this is why we brought the verse from Navi before the Torah verse. We have no such Heter for eggs. If so, they are forbidden to Nochrim.


Chasam Sofer (YD 19): Even if Nochrim may not eat eggs, one may give to them raw broken eggs. Perhaps they will use them for Melachah, e.g. glue.


Yabi'a Omer (1 OC 11:6 DH v'Tavet): Maharshak holds that eating a raw egg is abnormal eating. It is like a food improper to eat (e.g. a spoiled Neveilah, which the Torah permits - PF). If so, the verse does not discuss a raw egg, for even Tamei raw eggs are permitted! Rather, the Torah permits Tahor eggs even if they are cooked. There is no proof whether they are considered liquids or solids. If eggs were forbidden before Matan Torah, and the Torah was Mechadesh a Heter, it would have explicitly permitted them. Tosfos (64a) explains that we infer the Heter from Bas ha'Ya'anah or from Shilu'ach ha'Kan. Tosfos (99b) says that Torah forbade liquids only from Sheratzim and Tamei animals.

See Also:

Other Halachos relevant to this Daf: