1) 62b----------------------------------------62b


WHICH LIQUIDS ARE MACSHIR? [Hechsher: liquids: Shem Levai]




(Abaye): A Shem Levai (accompanying name) disqualifies only if that name existed when the Torah was given.


The Torah specified the generic name to disqualify all other varieties.


Pesachim 115a (R. Elazar): One must wash his hands before eating anything dipped in a liquid.


Bechoros 7a - Version #1 - Question: May one drink a donkey's urine?


Surely, urine of horses and camels is permitted. It is watery. It is not at all like milk. We ask about donkey's urine, for it is thick, like milk.


Answer (Rav Sheshes - Mishnah): What comes Min (from) ha'Tamei is Tamei.


It does not say "mi'Tamei," rather, "Min ha'Tamei."


7b - Version #2 - Question: May one drink a donkey's urine?


We do not ask about urine of horses and camels, for no one drinks it. We ask about donkey's urine, which people drink for a cure.


Answer (Rav Sheshes - Mishnah): What comes Min ha'Tamei is Tamei.


Question (Beraisa): One may eat bee's honey because bees merely spit out what they ate (from flowers). Honey does not contain any part of the bee.


Answer: Rav Sheshes holds like R. Yakov;


(Beraisa - R. Yakov): "Ach Es Zeh Tochlu mi'Kol Sheretz ha'Of", but not a Tamei Sheretz ha'Of.


Inference: You may not eat a Tamei Sheretz ha'Of, but you may eat what it emits from its body, i.e. bee's honey. However, honey of Gizin (locusts or falcons) and of Tzir'in (hornets) are forbidden!


Question: Perhaps we should forbid bee's honey and permit the others!


Answer: We permit bee's honey, for it is called Stam "honey." The others are always called by a Shem Levai.


(Beraisa): Honey of Gizin and Tzir'in is Tahor (not Mekabel Tum'ah). One may eat it.


This is unlike R. Yakov.


Toras Kohanim (Shemini, Parshah 8, Perek 9) Question: The verse says only that water is Machshir. What is the source to include the other liquids?


Answer: It says "Asher Yishaseh."


Suggestion: Perhaps we include even Mei Tusim and Mei Rimonim (juice of strawberries and pomegranates) and of other fruits!


Rejection: Just like water has no Shem Levai, we include only liquids without a Shem Levai.


Zevachim 22a (Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Gamliel): One may immerse in anything that originates from water.


(R. Yitzchak bar Avdimi): One may immerse in the eye of a big fish (after it dissolves).




Rambam (Hilchos Tum'as Ochlim 1:2): The seven liquids that are Machshir foods to be Mekabel Tum'ah are water, dew, oil, wine, milk, blood and honey.


Rambam (10:1): Only the seven liquids are Machshir. Everything else is called Mei Peros (fruit juice), and it is not Machshir. Derivatives of the seven liquids are like the seven liquids.


Rambam (2): Salt is like Mei Peros.


Rambam (Hilchos Ma'achalos Asuros 3:3): Honey of bees and of hornets is permitted.


Rosh (Bechoros 1:7): R. Tam rules unlike R. Yakov, because the Stam Mishnah in Machshirin (6:4) is unlike him. It says that honey of hornets is Tahor, and one may eat it. The Gemara brought the Beraisa, because it mentions also honey of Gizin. This is difficult. Rav Sheshes rules like R. Yakov! However, perhaps only in Version #2 the Gemara needed to say that he holds like R. Yakov. In Version #1, he forbids only donkey urine, for it is (like) the Tamei species, but permits horse urine. Donkey urine is thick and comes from the donkey's body. Honey is not from the very body of the bee or hornet. However, R. Tam (Ma'adanei Yom Tov 1 - this should say 'the Rif') normally rules like Version #2, so we do not rely on Version #1. Also, for Torah laws we follow the stringent opinion. This is the Halachah; honey of hornets or Gizim is forbidden.


Magid Mishneh: A Stam Mishnah permits honey of hornets, and Tana'im argue about this in a Beraisa, therefore the Halachah follows the Mishnah. It seems that Rav Sheshes holds like R. Yakov, for he learned from the text of the Mishnah, which says 'Min ha'Tamei', and not "mi'Tamei." Really, this is not a proper inference. If so, Stam Mishnayos contradict each other! Rather, it is normal to say 'Min ha'Tamei.' Also, we conclude that the Stam Beraisa is unlike R. Yakov. Also, we can say that Rav Sheshes holds like R. Yakov only regarding the Heter of honey. It is a Gezeras ha'Kasuv. It is not because it is not from the body itself. If it were, also we would permit also urine! However, Rav Sheshes does not limit the Heter to honey without a Shem Levai like R. Yakov does. The verse forbids only Sheretz ha'Of. We infer that honey is permitted, even if it has a Shem Levai. If Rav Sheshes held that our Stam Mishnah (in Bechoros) forbids honey of hornets, we could have asked a contradiction from the Stam Mishnah in Machshirin. Based on this, even Rav Sheshes permits honey of hornets.


Note: Our Mishnah is not explicit. Perhaps we asked why Rav Sheshes explains it unlike the Stam Mishnah in Machshirin, and answered he holds (that our Stam Mishnah is) like R. Yakov!


Beis Yosef (YD 81 DH Devash): What is R. Yakov's source to exclude honey of hornets? The verse did not mention honey. It is a mere inference that we may not eat Sheretz ha'Of, but we may eat what they spit out. This includes honey of hornets and Gizim! The Rambam permits honey of hornets, like the Stam Mishnah. He did not explicitly mention Gizim; he cited the Mishnah verbatim. He permits also honey of Gizim. It is just like honey of hornets; both of them have Shem Levai. The Terumas ha'Deshen says that honey of hornets and Gizim is not common among us.


Ma'adanei Yom Tov (100): The Levush says that since it is a Chidush learned from a Gezeras ha'Kasuv to permit honey, reasoning teaches that we permit only Stam honey, in which we do not mention the name of the Sheretz. The Maharshal, in his Perush on Sha'arei Dura, says that it is reasonable to include only one matter.




Shulchan Aruch (OC 158:4): If one eats something dipped in one of the seven liquids, for which the acronym is Yad Shochat Dam (Rema - wine, honey, oil, milk, dew, blood, and water), and it is not dry, he must wash.


Machatzis ha'Shekel (7): We discuss bee's honey. Date honey is Mei Peros, which is not Machshir.


Taz (5): Bees' honey is not called a Shem Levai. It is called Stam honey. 'Bees'' is only to exclude of hornets. We wash only for what is Machshir. A verse teaches that only these seven liquids are Machshir. The Levush (5) says that we decree these due to (dipping in oil or) wine. This is wrong.


Eliyahu Rabah (9): Even though a verse teaches which liquids are Machshir, Chachamim decreed only due to Terumah, which applies only to oil and wine.


Note: All agree that Terumah applies mid'Oraisa to the five grains, and the Rambam says so even regarding Peros. Even if we were concerned only for Terumah liquids, there are liquids made from grain, e.g. beer and whiskey! Even if one will say that it is not common to dip in these (see the next entry), so Chachamim did not decree about them, it was standard to dip in Kutach, which is made from stale bread and milk!


Magen Avraham (5): If people do not normally dip something in liquid, one who does so need not wash. We are not concerned for his opinion. The Halachah is based on normal people


Mishnah Berurah (11): If it is not normal to dip a food in liquid or for it to be wet, one need not wash for it. This is not common; Chachamim did not decree about it.


Kaf ha'Chayim (14): The Radvaz says so, but the Birkei Yosef says that Ge'onim derive from the Yerushalmi unlike the Radvaz.


Magen Avraham (8): There was no need for the Shulchan Aruch to mention blood. One may not eat it! Blood of fish and locusts (is permitted to eat, but one need not wash for it, for it) is not called a liquid. Perhaps he teaches about one who must eat blood for Piku'ach Nefesh.


R. Akiva Eiger (2): This requires investigation. Even oil of fish is Machshir, for the entire fish is considered water (Zevachim 22a). The Rambam (Mikva'os 8:11) and Shulchan Aruch (YD 210:33) rule that one may immerse in a fish's eye. Since it is considered like water, it is Machshir!


Gra (DH b'Echad): Food is Mekabel Tum'ah if liquid came on it, even if it is dry now. However, it is Metamei Chulin only if it is still wet.


Mishnah Berurah (15): One need not wash for honey of dates or other species. If one eats jam fried in honey using a fork, he need not wash.


Ginas Veradim (OC 1:1:19, cited in R. Akiva Eiger 1): I say that sesame oil is not one of the seven liquids. It is like other Mei Peros. Toras Kohanim teaches that any liquid with a Shem Levai is not Machshir. Clearly, the verse teaches that the liquids that are Machshir are those without Shem Levai, like water. This refers to the normal way people speak in Eretz Yisrael. The verse comes to clarify, and not to conceal. We are not concerned if in some places in Chutz la'Aretz it is different. If we would, there would be no end. We would need to check the entire world! Also, presumably the Torah commands about the custom of Eretz Yisrael. If one vowed from oil and honey, a Mishnah permits sesame oil and date honey (Nedarim 53a). The Ran explains that in Eretz Yisrael they use only olive oil. A Beraisa says that this refers to Eretz Yisrael, but one who vows in Bavel is permitted olive oil and forbidden sesame oil. Do not infer that one who vows from honey is forbidden honey of hornets. (Really, it is permitted.) It mentioned date honey because this is a Chidush, for Stam honey of the Torah is date honey. One might have thought that he vows with intent also for the way the Torah speaks, and both are forbidden. Honey of Gizim and of hornets is not called Stam honey. No one argues with R. Yakov about this. Alternatively, the Tana in Nedarim did not mention honey of Gizim and of hornets because Tana'im argue about these. Or, perhaps the Tana is R. Yakov, who (always) forbids them. The Beis Yosef lists olive oil among the seven liquids that are Machshir. In the Shulchan Aruch, he wrote only 'oil'


Mishnah Berurah (15): The Beis Yosef says that oil refers to olive oil. This implies that other oils are not called a liquid.


Eshel Avraham (8): Salt made from water is a liquid. One may immerse in salt (if it was diced until it liquefied) - 160:12 Therefore, one must wash for a salted radish. There are two opinions about mined salt, and it is a Safek whether one must wash for wet Peros, therefore one may be lenient. The Rambam says that salt is not Machshir. We must say that he discusses mined salt. This requires investigation.


Mishnah Berurah (18): One must wash for a salted radish if the salt was moist when he dipped. Stam salt is hard; it is not a liquid.


Kaf ha'Chayim (21): The Rambam says that salt is like Mei Peros. The Beis Meir says that this is even for our salt, which is from water. Yafeh l'Lev agreed. However, Pesach ha'Dvir says to be stringent like the Eshel Avraham.