117b----------------------------------------117b

1)

WHAT IS FORBIDDEN TO NOCHRIM DUE TO EVER MIN HA'CHAI? [Ever Min ha'Chai: Nochrim]

(a)

Gemara

1.

(Mishnah): If a Yisrael slaughtered a Tamei animal for a Nochri, and it is still quivering, it receives Tum'as Ochlim, but not Tum'as Nevelah until it dies or its head is cut off;

2.

121b (Beraisa): If a Yisrael slaughtered the majority of both Simanim of a Tamei animal for a Nochri, if limbs separate from it (while it is still quivering), they are like Ever Min ha'Chai. If meat separates from it, it is like Basar Min ha'Chai (meat that separated from a living being). They are forbidden to a Nochri, even after the animal dies.

3.

101b (Beraisa - R. Yehudah and R. Elazar): The Isur of Ever Min ha'Chai (a limb of a living animal) applies to Behemos, Chayos and birds, both Tehorim and Teme'im;

4.

Chachamim say, it applies only to Tehorim.

5.

102a (Beraisa - R. Meir): It applies only to Behemos Tehoros.

6.

(Rav Gidal): The Tana'im argue only about Yisrael, but all agree that Bnei No'ach are commanded also about Teme'im.

7.

Support (Rav Shizbi - Mishnah): The following apply to a Tamei bird:

i.

One who eats Ever Min ha'Chai is not lashed. Shechitah does not permit it.

8.

Question: To whom does this apply?

i.

It cannot apply to a Yisrael. Obviously, slaughtering it does not permit it!

9.

Answer #1: It applies to a Ben No'ach.

10.

Question (Rav Mani bar Patish): The Reisha says that Ever Min ha'Chai does not apply to a Tamei bird (it exempts from lashes). The Seifa says that it does apply!

11.

Answer #2 (Rav Mani): The Reisha applies to Yisraelim. The Seifa applies to Bnei No'ach.

12.

120a (Reish Lakish): "A soul (that will eat Chelev)" includes one who drinks (melted Chelev). "A soul (that will eat Chametz)" includes one who drinks (melted Chametz). "A soul (that will eat the Neveilah of a Tahor bird)" includes one who drinks.

13.

Sanhedrin 59a (Beraisa): "Ach Basar b'Nafsho Damo Lo Sochelu" forbids Ever Min ha'Chai (even to Nochrim);

14.

R. Chanina ben Gamliel says, this also includes blood of a living animal.

15.

He expounds the verse as if it said 'Basar b'Nafsho Lo Sochelu. Damo b'Nafsho Lo Sochelu';

16.

Chachamim say, this comes to permit (limbs of living) Sheratzim.

17.

59b: "Ach Basar b'Nafsho Damo Lo Sochelu excludes (permits) Ever Min ha'Chai of Sheratzim.

18.

(Rav Huna): "Damo" is extra, to allude to something whose blood is (Halachically) unlike its flesh (i.e. animals. Blood of a Sheretz is like its flesh.)

(b)

Rishonim

1.

Rambam (Hilchos Melachim 9:10): A Nochri is liable for Ever Min ha'Chai, and for any amount of Basar Min ha'Chai. Shi'urim were given only for Yisrael. He is permitted blood Min ha'Chai.

2.

Rambam (11): This applies to a limb or meat of a Behemah or Chayah. It seems to me that a Ben No'ach is not killed for Ever Min ha'Chai of birds.

i.

Ra'avad: It seems that the text should say 'of Sheratzim.'

ii.

Kesef Mishneh: The Ra'avad does not distinguish between Ever Min ha'Chai of animals and birds for Bnei No'ach, just like they are the same for Yisre'elim, like it says in Chulin. One is not liable for Ever Min ha'Chai of Sheratzim. According to the Ra'avad, why did the Rambam say 'it seems'? Sanhedrin 59a explicitly says so!

iii.

Note: R. Chanina ben Gamliel disagrees. However, the Rambam rules unlike R. Chanina regarding blood Min ha'Chai, and did not say 'it seems.'

iv.

Kesef Mishneh: I say that the Rambam learns from Chulin 101b. R. Yehudah, R. Elazar, Chachamim and R. Meir argue about to what Ever Min ha'Chai applies. They argue only about Yisrael, but all agree that Bnei No'ach are commanded also about Teme'im. Rav Shizbi supports this from a Mishnah, which says that one is not lashed for Ever Min ha'Chai of Tamei birds, and Shechitah does not permit them. It must refer to Bnei No'ach, and it forbids Ever Min ha'Chai! The Rambam holds that Rav Shizbi explains 'one is not lashed' for Ever Min ha'Chai, i.e. Beis Din does not punish him, but it is forbidden. The Mishnah used the expression we normally use to teach this regarding Yisrael. A Nochri is never lashed! Do not say that this is only for Tamei birds. Regarding Nochrim, we do not distinguish Tamei birds from Tahor! Only R. Mani establishes the Mishnah to discuss a Yisrael in the Reisha and a Ben No'ach in the Seifa. He holds that for a Ben No'ach, birds are like animals. There is no way to decide whom the Halachah follows. Therefore, the Rambam said it seems to me that he is not killed. When Chachamim excluded Sheratzim (Sanhedrin 59a), why didn't they exclude also birds? They exclude Sheratzim to teach that they are permitted. A Ben No'ach is not killed for birds, but they are forbidden.

v.

Yad ha'Melech: I explain the Rambam as follows. Reish Lakish holds that the Torah permits Chetzi Shi'ur to Yisrael (Yoma 73b). Shi'urim do not apply to Nochrim, so they are killed for any amount. However, anything permitted to Yisraelim is permitted to Nochrim! Reish Lakish must expound "you will slaughter and you will eat" to forbid what is not slaughtered with an Aseh. This includes any limb and meat from a living being. Regarding any Aseh, we do not distinguish between a Chetzi Shi'ur and a full Shi'ur. Therefore, Reish Lakish agrees that any amount is forbidden to a Yisrael. This applies to animals, about which it says "v'Zavachta v'Achalta." Reish Lakish holds that the Torah does not require Shechitah for birds (Nazir 29a). If so, there is no Aseh regarding them. Reish Lakish must permit Chetzi Shi'ur of Ever Min ha'Chai or birds to Yisrael. Since anything permitted to Yisraelim is permitted to Nochrim, were forbidden to Nochrim, we must say that Ever Min ha'Chai of birds does not apply to Nochrim.

vi.

Note: Surely, Yad ha'Melech means that even though the Halachah does not follow Reish Lakish regarding Chetzi Shi'ur, we do not find that others argue with him about Ever Min ha'Chai for Nochrim. I do not understand this. His Heter for Ever Min ha'Chai for Nochrim was based on his Heter of Chetzi Shi'ur. We rule like R. Yochanan, who forbids Chetzi Shi'ur. What is the source to permit Ever Min ha'Chai of birds to Nochrim? Also, we hold that the Torah requires Shechitah of birds. Also, the Rambam does not rule that anything permitted to Yisraelim is permitted to Nochrim!

vii.

Tosfos (Pesachim 24b DH Perat): Our Gemara exempts one who eats raw Chelev. In Chulin (102b), we say that one is liable for eating a live Tahor bird of any size, or for a k'Zayis dead. Birds are different. They are soft, and proper to eat raw.

(c)

Poskim

1.

Bach (YD 62:1 DH Lo): The Beis Yosef asked why the Tur taught that Ever Min ha'Chai does not apply to Tamei species. This is relevant to being considered a Briyah, so it is not Batel, and to permit giving Ever Min ha'Chai of Tamei species to a Nochri. Regarding Tahor species it is forbidden due to Lifnei Iver.

2.

Prishah (62:2, Hagahah): Nochrim are permitted Ever Min ha'Chai of Tamei species, since it is permitted to Yisrael.

i.

Rebuttal (Shach 62:3): The Gemara (102, 121b) explicitly says that all agree that Nochrim are forbidden Ever Min ha'Chai of Tamei species! The Rambam, Yere'im, Rashba, Sefer ha'Chinuch (Mitzvah 464) and Maharshal all say so. Rashi and Tosfos (33b DH Echad) say that we do not apply 'anything permitted to Yisrael...', because it is forbidden to Yisrael (for another reason).

3.

Taz (1): Since a Yisrael is not commanded about Ever Min ha'Chai of Temei'im, he does not transgress for giving to one (a Nochri) who is commanded.

i.

Yad Avraham: Meforshim argue about this.

4.

Chasam Sofer (YD 70 DH v'Nora'os): The Rambam says that a Ben No'ach is not killed for Ever Min ha'Chai of birds. In Pesachim (73a), we say that one who slaughtered Chatas outside the Mikdash on Shabbos helped to uproot Ever Min ha'Chai. Rashi explains that this is regarding Bnei No'ach (for a Yisrael may not eat it). In Chulin (40b) we say that the Beraisa discusses Chatas ha'Of. According to the Rambam, Ever Min ha'Chai does not apply to birds! Seemingly, the Rambam can say that there is Ever Min ha'Chai and Basar Min ha'Chai. He is killed for the latter, but not for the former. The Shechitah uprooted Basar Min ha'Chai. However, there is no reason to distinguish these. Granted, for Yisrael we could say that Basar Min ha'Chai is learned from "u'Vasar ba'Sadeh Treifah", so anything that applies to Tereifah applies to Basar ba'Sadeh (Basar Min ha'Chai). What is the source to distinguish regarding Nochrim?

5.

Chasam Sofer: The Sha'agas Aryeh asked my Rebbi, R. Noson Adler, why Ever Min ha'Chai and Basar Min ha'Chai are different for Bnei No'ach. For Yisrael, it is relevant to the Shi'urim. Shi'urim do not apply to Bnei No'ach, like the Rambam himself says! I answer that if an entire limb was cut from an animal, one who eats meat from it has two Aveiros. If a partial limb was cut, it is only Basar Min ha'Chai. Tosfos says that v'Chai Bahem applies to Bnei No'ach. If he needs to eat meat to save his life, and he could eat Ever Min ha'Chai or Basar Min ha'Chai, if he chooses to eat Ever Min ha'Chai he is killed. Only Basar Min ha'Chai was permitted in order to cure himself. My answer does not help for the case of Shechitah of a bird. In any case he is not killed for Ever Min ha'Chai of birds, so he may eat whichever he wants. This is not called a Tikun to say that it permits a case of Piku'ach Nefesh.

6.

Suggestion: If one must eat Isur for Piku'ach Nefesh, we feed him the lightest Isur. This is why we must know that there are two Isurim for a Nochri!

7.

Objection (R. Akiva Eiger, brought in Frankel Rambam, and on YD 62:2, from Tevas Gomeh Shemos 1): What is the source to feed him even one Isur? "Va'Chai Bahem" applies only to Yisrael!

8.

A Talmid (ibid.): In any case, if a Nochri forces us to give to him one of the pieces, we must know that it is better to give to him the piece with only one Isur.

9.

Drush v'Chidush (R. Akiva Eiger Pesachim 24b): Why did Tosfos (24b) cite the Seifa (eating a k'Zayis when it is dead)? Perhaps he ate it cooked. His question was from the Reisha (eating it alive)! Perhaps we can answer that one is liable for eating Ever Min ha'Chai abnormally, since he must eat bones, meat and sinews, and in any case it is abnormal to eat bones. Therefore, he is liable even if he ate the meat abnormally. Tosfos asked from the Seifa, for presumably it is the same case as the Reisha (raw). This would answer the Sha'agas Aryeh's question. If a Nochri ate Ever Min ha'Chai abnormally, he is liable, but he would not be liable for Basar Min ha'Chai.

10.

Va'Ya'an Yosef (YD 6): The Kesef Mishneh says that the Rambam holds that Beis Din does not punish a Ben No'ach for Ever Min ha'Chai of birds, but it is forbidden This still does not answer that we do not have a verse for Ever Min ha'Chai for Bnei No'ach! I answer that a Ben No'ach is liable due to the verse of Basar Min ha'Chai, for the limb has Mashehu of meat. Shi'urim do not apply to Nochrim. Since Ever Min ha'Chai and Basar Min ha'Chai are separate Isurim for Yisrael, the Rambam wrote that a Nochri is liable for both, but they are only one Isur in the Torah. On 121b, we say that if a Yisrael slaughtered a Tamei animal for a Nochri, limbs that separate from are Ever Min ha'Chai. Meat that separates from it is Basar Min ha'Chai. They are forbidden to a Nochri, even after the animal dies. Seemingly, both are forbidden to a Nochri after it dies. However, Rashi said that Ever Min ha'Chai discusses Tum'ah. The Beraisa teaches only that Basar Min ha'Chai is forbidden to Bnei No'ach. It seems that this was due to the Sha'agas Aryeh's question. A Nochri has only one Isur.

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