TEMURAH 22 (Tisha b'Av) - Dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel of Ra'anana, Israel, in memory of his father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo ha'Levi Turkel. Isi Turkel, as he was known, loved Torah and worked to support it literally with his last ounce of strength. He passed away on 10 Av 5740.

1)

TOSFOS DH TIR'EH AD SHE'TISTA'EV

úåñ' ã"ä úøòä òã ùúñúàá

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies the case.)

à'òáøä ùðúä' ãå÷à ÷àé ...

(a)

Clarification: This refers specifically to 'Avrah Shenasah' ...

ãàé à'àáãä åðîöàú áòìú îåí, äà îñàáà å÷ééîà.

1.

Reason: Because as far as 'Avdah ve'Nimtzeis Ba'alas-Mum is concerned, it is already blemished.

2)

TOSFOS DH YISHMOR MIBA'I LEIH

úåñ' ã"ä éùîåø îáòé ìéä

(Summary: Tosfos disagrees with Rashi's explanation.)

ôøù"é éùîåø àåúä, àåìé éòùä îåí ÷áåò.

(a)

Refuted Explanation: Rashi explains that he must guard it, perhaps it will become a permanent blemish.

åì"ð, ãà"ë äééðå 'úøòä' ã÷úðé ...

(b)

Refutation: This is not correct however, because in that case, that is the 'Tir'eh' which the Tana mentions?

ã'úøòä òã ùúñúàá' îùîò áéï ò"é àåúå îåí áéï ò"é îåí àçø?

1.

Reason: Because 'Tir'eh ad she'Tista'ev implies - whether it is via that blemish or via a different one.

ìëï ðøàä ìôøù 'éùîåø àåúä' - àåìé úúøôà åçæéà ìä÷øáä ...

(c)

Authentic Explanation: The correct explanation is therefore - that he should guard it - perhaps it will be healed and it will be fit to bring on the Mizbe'ach.

åàôé' ìøáé ãàîø àó áðîöàú ÷åãí ëôøä, îúä ...

1.

Authentic Explanation (cont.): And even according to Rebbi who says that even it is found before the Kaparah it must die

äééðå ëùðúëôø àúø îëàï, àáì òã ùìà ðúëôø, îúëôø åãàé áàéæä ùéøöä.

2.

Authentic Explanation (concl.): That is if he is atoned for afterwards, but as long as he has not yet been atoned for, he can deefinitely be atoned for with whichever one he pleases.

3)

TOSFOS DH I TANYA GABEI IBRAH SHENASAH HASAM HU D'LO AHANI MISHUM D'CHAZYA L'HAKRAVAH

úåñ' ã"ä àé úðéà âáé òéáøä ùðúä äúí äåà ãìà àäðé (ìä àáåãä) îùåí ãçæéà ìä÷øáä

(Summary: Tosfos reiterates what he wrote at the beginning of the Perek

åäééðå ëùéèú ø"é - ãøéáåé øéòåúåú îáéàéï àåúä ìéãé øòéä.

(a)

Proof: That goes according to the opinion of the Ri (See first Tosfos in the Perek) who holds that more detriments result in the animal being sent to graze.

4)

TOSFOS DH U'MI AMAR RAVA HACHI

úåñ' ã"ä åîé àîø øáà äëé

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies the question and explains why the Gemara cannot query Rava from the Mishnah.)

ãäéëà ãðôñìä ÷åãí äàéáåã, ãîäðéà ìéä àéáåã ìîåú - åäàîø øáà 'àáåãú ìéìä ìà ùîä àáåãä'?

(a)

Clarification: That if it became Pasul before it got lost, the fact that it got lost is cause for it to have to die.

åà"ú, ìéôøåê îîúðé' ã÷úðé 'àáãä åðîöàú áòìú îåí, îúä' - àó òì âá ãàéëà øéòåúà àçøéúé òí äàáåãä?

(b)

Question: We can ask from the Mishnah, which says that 'If it, after it gets lost it is found with a blemish, it must die' - even though there is another detriment together with the fact that it was lost?

åé"ì, ãáùìîà îîúðé' ìà îöé ìîéôøê- ãùàðé îúðé', ãàáãä ÷åãí ùéáà ìä äøéòåúà àçøéúé, åîù"ä ìà ãîé ìàáåãú ìéìä, ãøéòåúà ãìéìä áà òìéä ÷åãí äàéáåã ...

(c)

Answer: One cannot ask on the Mishnah, which is different - because it got lost before the other detriment occurred and which is therefore not comparable with where it got lost at nighttime, where the detriment of nighttime preceded the getting lost ...

àáì ìøáà ôøéê ùôéø - ùäøé øéòåúà ãòáøä ùðúä áà òìéä ÷åãí äàéáåã ...

1.

Answer (cont.): Whereas the Kashya on Rava is justified, since the loss of before it getting lost

åîù"ä ôøéê îàáåãú ìéìä åîùðé 'ìà ãîé, àáåãú ìéìä ìà çæéà ìà ìâåôä' åìà ìãîé.

2.

Answer (concl.): Hence the Gemara asks from 'Avudas Laylah' and answers - 'It is not comparable, because 'Avudas Laylah' is intrinsically not fit, and not because just its value.

ëàï îùîò ëùéèú ø"é - ãøéáåé øéòåúåú îáéàéï àåúä ìøòéä åìà ìîéúä.

(d)

Repeated Proof: From here there is proof for the opinion of the Ri (See first Tosfos in the Perek)- that more detriments cause the animal to have to graze and not to have to die.

5)

TOSFOS DH AMAR LACH RAVA

úåñ' ã"ä àîø ìê øáà

(Summary: Tosfos disagrees wit Rashi's explanation.)

ôøù"é åãàé äéëà ãàéëà ãéçåé åðúëôø áàçøú, îúä áìà ùåí àáåãä ...

(a)

Explanation #1: Rashi explains - There where there is a detriment, and he is atoned with another animal, it definitely must die even if it was not lost ...

åìøùá"ì åãàé ÷ùä ...

1.

Explanation #1 (cont.): And it is certainly a Kashya on Resh Lakish ...

ãëé úøéöðà ìòéì 'òáøä ùðúä åàáãä' ...

(b)

Implied Question: Because when I (Rava) answered earlier 'Avrah Shenasah ve'Avdah' ...

ìøùá"ì úøéöðà, åìé ìà ñáéøà ìé.

1.

Answer: That was according to Resh Lakish, but I do not hold like him.

åàé îùåí 'àáåãä åðîöàú áòìú îåí' ÷ùéà ìê - àîàé ð÷è 'áòìú îåí', úîåú îùåí àáåãä ìçåãä, äåàéì åùåá ðúëôø áàçøú? ...

(c)

Implied Question: And if you will ask from 'Avudah ve'Nimtza Ba'alas-Mum' - why does it mention 'Ba'alas-Mum', why should it not die because of Avudah alone, seeing as he was then atoned for with another animal? ...

ìà ÷ùéà - ãçåééï ìçåã åàáåãéï ìçåã, åàó òì âá ãàáãä áòéðï øéòåúà àçøéúé òë"ì.

1.

Answer: This is not a problem - because 'Dechyin (rejected) and 'Avudin' are independent of each other, and even though it was lost, it requires another detriment (until here is the wording of Rashi).

åìà ðøàä ãúùàø îéìúà ãøùá"ì á÷åùéà, ãäà îééúé ìä áëîä î÷åîåú áäù"ñ?

(d)

Question #1: It is not correct however, to say that a Kashya remains on Resh Lakish, seeing as his ruling is quoted in a number of places in Shas?

åòåã ÷ùä, ãîîä ùä÷ùä ìà úéøõ?

(e)

Question #2: Moreover, Rava leaves the questions that he asked unanswered?

ìëê ðøàä ìø"é ìôøù ëé äéëé ãàéöèøéê ìùðåéé à'îúðé' ãáòé úøúé àáåãä åáòìú îåí ...

(f)

Explanation #2: Therefore the Ri explains that just as it needed to answer on the Mishnah, that two things are needed, Avudah and Ba'alas-Mum (See Tzon Kodshim) ...

åìôéëê àúä öøéê ìçì÷ åìåîø ãçåééï ìçåã åàáåãéï ìçåã ...

1.

Explanation #2 (cont.): For which reason it was necessary to say that Dechuyin and Avudin are two independent issues ...

äëé ðîé ðúøõ ìøùá"ì ãçåééï ìçåã åòáøä ùðúä ìçåã - ãçåééï ìà çæå ìùåí ä÷øáä, åòáøä ùðúä çæéä ìä÷øáä ãùàø ÷øáðåú.

2.

Explanation #2 (concl.): So too, will we answer according to Resh Lakish that Dechuyin and Avudin are two independent issues - that Dechuyin are not fit to go on the Mizbe'ach, whereas Avrah Shenasah is fit to be brought just like other Korbanos (See Shitah Mekubetzes Hashmatos).

22b----------------------------------------22b

6)

TOSFOS DH AFILU AVUDAH DI'YEMAMA NAMI D'AMRI RABBANAN AVUDAH B'SHA'AS HAFRASHAH RO'AH

úåñ' ã"ä àôé' àáåãä ãéîîà ðîé ãàîøé øáðï àáåãä áùòú äôøùä øåòä

(Summary: Tosfos concludes that this Sugya does not hold like Rebbi Aba.)

åàí úàîø, ìéîà ãìøáé àáà àéöèøéê, ãàîø ì÷îï (ëâ.) 'äëì îåãéí áðúëôø áùàéðä àáåãä, àáåãä îúä...

(a)

Introduction to Question: Why does the Gemara not say that we need it for the Din of Rebbi Aba, who will later state 'Everyone agrees that if he was atoned for with the one that is not lost, the one that is lost must die ...

åàéöèøéê øáðï ìàùîåòéðï ãàáåãú ìéìä åðúëôø áùàéðä àáåãä, àáåãä àéðä îúä ...

(b)

Question: And the Rabbanan therefore need to teach us that if by Avudas Laylah, he was atoned for with the one that is not lost, the one that is does not die

äà ãéîîà ëä"â îúä?

1.

Question (cont.): implying that, in the equivalent case of Avudas Yom, it dies?

åöøéê ìåîø ãäàé ùéèä ìéú ìéä ãøáé àáà, åôìéâé øáé åøáðï áëì òðéï.

(c)

Answer: We must therefore say that this Sugya does not hold like Rebbi Aba, and that Rebbi and the Rabbanan argue in all cases.

ä"ð àéëà ñåâéåú áôø÷ îé ùäéä èîà (ôñçéí ãó öæ.) ãìà îéúå÷îé ëøáé àáà.

1.

Support: Indeed, there are Sugyos in Perek Mi she'Hayah Tamei (See also Daf above 21b, Tosfos DH 'V'lad Chatas') - See Seifer Rashak.

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