PESACHIM 97 (Hoshana Raba) - dedicated by Gedalliah Jawitz in honor of the Yahrzeit of his father, Yehuda ben Simcha Volf Jawitz.

1)

THE TEMURAH OF A KORBAN PESACH (Cont'd) (Yerushalmi Halachah 6 Daf 66a)

תמן תנינן וולד חטאת ותמורת חטאת וחטאת שמתו בעלים ושעיברה שנתה ושאבדה ונמצאת בעלת מום

(a)

(Mishnah - Temurah): The offspring of a Korban Chatas, the Temurah of a Chatas, a Chatas whose owners died, if it became more than a year old or if it was lost and it was later found to be blemished - they must all die.

וולד חטאת דאיתפלגון ציבור שהפריש נקבה [דף עט עמוד ב (עוז והדר)] וכן נשיא שהפריש שעירה. ר' ירמיה אמר לא קדשה וולדה קרב רבי יוסה אומר קדשה וולדה מת

(b)

In the case of the offspring of a Chatas, there is a dispute if a community separated a female or a Nasi separated a female goat -

1.

R. Yirmiyah said it did not receive any type of Kedushah and its offspring can be sacrificed.

2.

R. Yosa said that it received Kedushah and its offspring must therefore die.

[דף סו עמוד ב] חייליה דר' יוסי מן הדא אין את יכול לומר וולד חטאת בציבור שאין הציבור מביאין נקבה לא אמר אלא אין את יכול הא אם הקדישה קדשה

i.

R. Yosa's proof comes from the Mishnah in Temurah - "You cannot speak about 'the offspring of a Chatas' regarding a communal Korban as the community never brings a female as a Korban''. The Mishnah only said that 'you cannot speak' - but if he consecrated it, it would work.

אמר רבי יוסי בי ר' בון יאות א''ר ירמיה ולא דר' שמעון היא דרבי שמעון אמר נקבה לעולה לא קדשה אלא הקדיש דמים.

(c)

R. Yosa bei R. Bun: R. Yirmiyah is correct - it is the opinion of R. Shimon who said that if a person consecrated a female animal as a Korban Olah, it only receives Kedushas Damim (only its monetary value belongs to the Temple but it cannot be used for a Korban. However the Korbanos of a community or a Nasi do not receive Kedushah at all.)

ותמורת חטאת דאיתפלגון

(d)

The same dispute about the Temurah of a Pesach applies to the Temurah of a Chatas -

המיר בו בשלש' עשר

1.

If he made a Temurah on the 13th of Nisan -

ר' זעירא אמר תמורתו קריבה שלמים ר' שמואל בר רב יצחק אמר אין תמורתו קריבה שלמים

i.

R. Zeira said that its Temurah is brought as a Shelamim. (So too, the Temurah of a Chatas that was incorrectly consecrated can be brought as an Olah).

ii.

R. Shmuel bar Rav Yitschak said that it is not brought as a Shelamim. (So too, the Temurah of the Chatas cannot be sacrificed - rather, it must die.

וחטאת שמתו בעלים ימות

(e)

If the owner of a Chatas died, the animal must die. But if the animal had been incorrectly consecrated -

כיי דמר ר' הילא בשם שמואל מתו בעליו בשלשה עשר גופו קרב שלמים

1.

It follows the words of R. Hila quoting Shmuel - if the owner of a Pesach died on the 13th, it is brought as a Shelamim (as it was not a valid Pesach. Here too, since the Chatas was not valid, it is brought as an Olah).

ולמה אמר בי''ד

(f)

Question: Why not discuss a case of the owner dying on the 14th?

כל עמא מודיי כל שנרא' לקרב בפסח אין גופו קרב שלמים

(g)

Answer: All agree that any case where it had become fitting to be brought for Pesach, it is not brought as a Shelamim.

ושעיברה שנתה

(h)

Question: What if it was consecrated when older than a year (and therefore not suitable as a Korban Chatas, just as a Pesach is not)?

כיי דאמר רב חסדא בשעיברה שנתו בין ראשון לשני

(i)

Answer: It follows R. Chisda who said that a Korban Pesach became more than a year old between Pesach Rishon and Pesach Sheni (is invalid).

ר' הילא בשם רבי יוחנן בשעיבר זמן כפרתו ושאבדה ונמצאת ברי מותר

(j)

R. Hila quoting R. Yochanan: If the time of the Pesach's atonement passed (for example, if the owner died) or if it was lost and later found unblemished, it may be brought as a Shelamim.

ר' יסא בשם ר' יוחנן אין לך פסח גופו קרב שלמים אלא שאבד ונמצא מאחר שכיפרו הבעלים

(k)

Support (R.Yasa quoting R. Yochanan): A Pesach is only brought as a Shelamim if it was lost and later found after the owners received atonement (by bringing another animal as a Pesach).

ובעלת מום

(l)

Question: What if the animal was found later with a blemish?

ר' זעירה בעא קומי רבי יסא לא מסתברא ההן בעל מום דתנינן הכא כאבוד הוא

(m)

Question (R. Zeira to R. Yasa): It is not logical to ask about such an animal that received a blemish, as is as if it is lost, which is a case that has already been discussed!

א''ל אנא סבר כן

(n)

Response (R. Yasa to R. Zeira): I agree with you.

[דף פ עמוד א (עוז והדר)] הפריש פסחו ואבד והפריש אחר תחתיו לא הספיק להקריב את הב' עד שנמצא הראשון והרי שניהן עומדין

(o)

Question: If a person separated his Pesach and it became lost; and he separated a replacement but before sacrificing the second one, the first one was found, what should he do with them?

אית תניי תני מצוה להקריב את הראשון אית תניי תני מצוה להקריב את השני

(p)

One Beraisa teaches that he should bring the first animal; another Beraisa teaches that he should bring the second one.

ותני שמואל כן

(q)

Shmuel also taught like the second Beraisa, but he understood that one could even bring the second -

בורר את היפה שבהן והשני ירעה עד שיסתאב וימכר ויביא בדמיו שלמים בי''ו

1.

He should choose the better animal and the other one should graze until it receives a blemish and then be sold and its money used to buy a Shelamim on the 16th.

ר' ליעזר אמר הוא עצמו קרב שלמים בי''ו

2.

R. Elazar disagrees and says that the second animal should itself be brought as a Shelamim on the 16th (rather than be sent to graze etc.).

אתיא דר' כר' לעזר ושמואל תניתא בשיטתיה דתני

(r)

Rebbi follows R. Elazar's opinion and Shmuel taught like (the Rabbanan). (Note: This follows the text of the Korban HaEidah.) - as the Beraisa teaches -

ר' אומר אין חטאת אלא שנמצאת מאחר שכיפרו בה בעלים אין המעות הולכות לים המלח אלא שנמצאו מאחר שכיפרו הבעלים

(s)

Rebbi says that a Chatas only dies if it was [lost and later] found after the replacement was sacrificed. And if he had separated money for a Chatas and it was lost and a replacement brought - if they were found before the replacement was sacrificed and he brought one of them, the other one falls as a donation to the Temple. But if he found the first monies after the replacement was sacrificed, the other one is thrown into the sea.