WHEN IS TEMURAS PESACH OFFERED? (cont.)
Question (Abaye - Beraisa): "Im Kesev" includes Temuras Pesach after Pesach - it is offered like Shelamim.
Suggestion: Perhaps the same applies even before Pesach!
Rejection: "Hu" - it (Pesach) is offered, but [there is a case when] its Temurah is not offered.
Question: What is the case?
If it was found before slaughter and he made Temurah before slaughter, this is obvious (it was Nidcheh - we would not need a verse for this)!
Answer: It was found before slaughter and he made Temurah after slaughter.
Rava is refuted.
WHEN PESACH IS RO'EH
(Shmuel): (In five cases a Chatas must be left to die - its owner died, Avrah Shenasah (it was not offered within its first year) and it was lost, it was lost and another was offered in place of it, Temuras Chatas, and Vlad (the child of a) Chatas.) If the corresponding case of Chatas must die, a Pesach is offered like a Shelamim (Vlad Pesach does not apply, for Pesach is male);
If the corresponding case of Chatas is Ro'eh (until it can be redeemed - the case will be explained), a Pesach is also Ro'eh.
(R. Yochanan): Pesach is offered like a Shelamim only if it was found after slaughter, but not if it was found before.
Question (Rav Yosef, against Shmuel): Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah is Ro'eh [if it was not lost] - but such a Pesach is offered like Shelamim!
(Reish Lakish): We consider Chatas she'Avrah Shenasah as if it is in a cemetery (it is not really Nidcheh, just a Kohen cannot offer it), it is Ro'eh;
(Beraisa): "Kesev" - this includes [to be Eimurim] the tail of a Pesach [lamb].
"Im Kesev" includes a Pesach she'Avrah Shenasah and a Shelamim that comes on account of Pesach - they are like Shelamim in all respects, i.e. Semichah, Nesachim, and Tenufas Chazah v'Shok.
V'Im Ez separates, to teach that the tail of a goat is not Eimurim.
Answer: Shmuel discusses only Avudah (a lost Korban, for which a replacement was offered; he distinguishes between cases in which a Chatas dies and those in which it is Ro'eh), not when there is only Dichuy.
Question: His rule is not true regarding Avudah! Chachamim say that if it was lost when a replacement was Hukdash, it is Ro'eh - but such a Pesach is offered like Shelamim!
(Mishnah - Rebbi): If a Chatas was lost and a replacement was Hukdash, and before it was offered the Chatas was found:
If both of them are Tamim, one of them is offered, the other must die;
Chachamim say, a Chatas does not die unless it was found after Kaparah.
Inference: If it was found before Kaparah, it is Ro'eh.
If a Pesach was lost and found after midday before slaughter [of its replacement], it is offered like Shelamim!
Version #1 - Answer #1: Shmuel holds like Rebbi, who says that an Avudah [found after a replacement was Hukdash] must die.
Question: According to Rebbi, any [Chatas] Avudah must die - but if Pesach was lost and found before midday, it is Ro'eh!
Answer: [Shmuel does not discuss this, for] it is not considered Avudah before midday [because it cannot be offered then - this is like Rava];
(Rava): If a Chatas was lost at night, it is not considered Avudah (since we do not offer then - therefore, it need not die).
Question: According to Rebbi, in what case is it Ro'eh?
Answer: It is Ro'eh in R. Oshaya's case:
(R. Oshaya): If one separated two Chata'os for Acharayos (if one of them will become blemished or lost, the other will be offered), he offers one of them, and the other is Ro'eh.
Objection: In such a case of Pesach, the other is offered like Shelamim!
Answer #2 (to Question (f)): Rather, Shmuel holds like R. Shimon, who says that the five Chata'os die [in all cases].
Question: According to R. Shimon, a Chatas is never Ro'eh!
Correction: Indeed, Shmuel only said one matter, whenever a Chatas must die, Pesach is offered like a Shelamim (he never said 'whenever a Chatas is Ro'eh...').
Question: What is his Chidush? (The Mishnah teaches this, as we explained according to R. Zeira (96B)!)
Answer: He argues with R. Yochanan, who says that Pesach is offered like a Shelamim only if it was found after slaughter, but not if it was found before.
R. Yochanan holds that slaughter is Kove'a - Shmuel teaches that midday is Kove'a (Avudah does not apply at all before midday).
WHEN PESACH IS RO'EH (cont.)
Version #2 - Recap of Question (f): [A Chatas found before slaughter of its replacement is Ro'eh, but] if a Pesach was lost and found after midday before slaughter, it is offered like Shelamim!
Answer #1: Shmuel holds like Rabah, who says that slaughter is Kove'a [therefore it is Ro'eh].
Objection: R. Yochanan [argues and] says that Pesach is offered like a Shelamim only if it was found after slaughter, but not if it was found before, i.e. slaughter is Kove'a - Shmuel must hold that midday is Kove'a!
Answer #2: Rather, Shmuel holds like Rebbi, who says that an Avudah must die.
Question: According to Rebbi, any [Chatas] Avudah must die - but if Pesach was lost and found before midday, it is Ro'eh!
Answer: Shmuel holds that Avudah does not apply before midday... [the Sugya continues as above, and concludes with]...and he holds that midday is Kove'a.