Question: Are Vestos mid'Oraisa or mid'Rabanan?

Answer (Rav Nachman): Rav Huna said in the name of Rav that if a woman did not check herself at the time of her Veses, and saw Dam later, she must be concerned for (Taharos that she touched after) the time of her Veses, and for (the 24 hours before) the time she saw (Rashi; Tosfos - she is in Safek when she became a Nidah);

Version #1: (Since she is concerned for the time of her Veses,) this shows that Vestos are mid'Oraisa.

Version #2: She is concerned for the time of her Veses only because she saw later. This shows that Vestos are mid'Rabanan.

(Rav): If a woman did not check herself at the time of her Veses, and checked herself later:

If she found herself to be Teme'ah, she is Teme'ah. If she found herself to be Tehorah, she is Tehorah;

(Shmuel): In either case she is Teme'ah. We assume that the blood came in its usual time.

Suggestion: Rav holds that Vestos are mid'Rabanan, and Shmuel holds that Vestos are mid'Oraisa.

Rejection #1 (R. Zeira): No, all agree that Vestos are mid'Oraisa;

Rav discusses one who checked herself within Shi'ur Veses. Shmuel discusses one who checked herself after Shi'ur Veses.

(Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): Indeed, they argue about whether Vestos are mid'Oraisa.

(Rav Sheshes): Rav and Shmuel argue as the following Tana'im do:

(Beraisa - R. Eliezer): (If a woman did not check herself at the time of her Veses), she is (Muchzekes to be) a Nidah;

R. Yehoshua says, she checks herself later. (if she finds herself to be Tehorah, she is Tehorah.)

In another Beraisa, R. Meir holds like R. Eliezer, and Chachamim hold like R. Yehoshua.

(Abaye): We know R. Meir's opinion from a Mishnah!

(Mishnah - R. Meir): If a woman was hiding (from an invading army or bandits) and her Veses came and she did not check herself, she is Tehorah, for fear is Mesalek ha'Damim.

Inference: If not for the fear, she would be a Nidah. This shows that R. Meir holds that Vestos are mid'Oraisa.

Suggestion: Also the following Tana'im argue about whether Vestos are mid'Oraisa:

(Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Gamliel): If a woman sees blood due to a wound (in the area), even at the time of her Veses, she is Tehorah;

Rebbi says, if she has a Veses, she is concerned for it. (She is Safek Nidah.)

Suggestion: R. Shimon ben Gamliel holds that Vestos are mid'Rabanan, and Rebbi holds that Vestos are mid'Oraisa.

Rejection (Ravina): All agree that Vestos are mid'Rabanan. They argue about whether blood from the Makor (which is not Dam Nidah) is Tamei;

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says that she is not a Nidah, but the blood is Tamei;

Rebbi says, if you are concerned for the Veses, then also she is Teme'ah. If you are not concerned for the Veses, then the blood is Tahor. Blood from the Makor (which is not Dam Nidah) is Tahor.

(Mishnah - Beis Shamai): A woman needs two Edim (examination cloths) for (Rashi - checking herself before and after; Tosfos - checking herself and her husband after) every act of Bi'ah, or she may re-use the same two Edim if they have Bi'ah in front of a lamp (she checks them each time);

Beis Hillel say, two Edim suffice for the entire night. (Rashi - one before the first Bi'ah, one after the last; Tosfos - she may re-use them without checking each time).

(Gemara - Beraisa - Beis Shamai): Even though Chachamim disparage Bi'ah in front of a light, she needs two Edim for each act of Bi'ah, or they must have Bi'ah in front of a light (so she can check the Edim);

Beis Hillel say, two Edim suffice for the entire night.

Beis Shamai: You should be concerned lest there be a drop of blood (Rashi - inside her; Tosfos - on the Ed), and semen from a later act of Bi'ah will cover it!

Beis Hillel: Also you should be concerned lest a drop of blood was covered by semen from that very act of Bi'ah!

Beis Shamai: If it was a covered by semen from one act of Bi'ah, it is recognizable, but not if it was covered by semen from many acts of Bi'ah.

(Beraisa - R. Yehoshua): I agree with Beis Shamai.

His Talmidim: You are very stringent on us!

R. Yehoshua: It is better that it be difficult for you in this world, in order that you will have length of days in the World to Come!

(R. Zeira): From both Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai we learn that (Bi'ah can cause blood to come. Therefore,) a Ba'al Nefesh (spiritual person) should not have Bi'ah twice without Bedikos (inspecting by a light) in between!

(Rava): Even a Ba'al Nefesh need not check in between;

Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai argue about Bedikos for the sake of Taharos, but not to permit Bi'ah.

Support (for Rava - Beraisa): These Bedikos are for the sake of Taharos. Bi'ah is permitted without them.

(Beraisa): This is when he left her when she was Tehorah (he may assume that she is still Tehorah without asking), but if she was Teme'ah, she is Muchzekes Teme'ah until she tells him that she is Tehorah.

(R. Aba): If a woman checked herself and lost the Ed, she may not have Bi'ah until she checks herself.

Question (R. Ila): Had she not lost it, she would be permitted to have Bi'ah without looking at it (until morning). The same should apply now that it is lost!

Answer (Rava): If it is around, later she will know her status (regarding Taharos and Korban);

If it is lost, she will not know her status. (In effect, she did not fulfill Chachamim's enactment of Bedikah.)

(R. Yochanan): One may not have Bi'ah during the day.

He learns from "Yovad Yom Ivaled Bo veha'Lailah Amar Horah Gaver" -- night is the time for (the act that leads to) pregnancy.

(Reish Lakish): We learn from "Bozeh Derachav Yamus" (if one has Bi'ah during the day, he may see something which will make him Mevazeh (scorn) her).

Reish Lakish expounds R. Yochanan's verse like R. Chanina bar Papa;

(R. Chanina bar Papa): The angel appointed over pregnancy is called Lailah. It brings the drop (of semen from which a fetus will develop) in front of Hash-m, and Hash-m decrees whether the person will grow to be strong or weak, wise or foolish, and rich or poor;

Hash-m does not decree whether he will be a Tzadik or Rasha;

(R. Chanina): Everything that happens to one is determined by Hash-m, except for whether or not he will fear Hash-m -- "Mah Hash-m Elokecha Sho'el me'Imach Ki Im l'Yirah."

R. Yochanan disagrees, for according to Reish Lakish, it should say "Gever Horah";

Rather, "Horah Gaver" teaches that night is the time for (Bi'ah, which leads to) pregnancy.

R. Yochanan expounds Reish Lakish's verse like Sefer Ben Sira;

(Sefer Ben Sira): I hate three -- a Chacham who frequents (some say - is very talkative or argumentative in) the drinking house, one who teaches Talmidim at the city summit (this is haughty, and it inconveniences travelers) and one who holds his Ever while urinating.

There is a fourth I do not love -- one who enters another's house suddenly. (Perhaps those inside are engaged in something immodest.)

(R. Yochanan): One should not enter even his own house suddenly.