THE REFUTATION OF RABAH
Question: Me'ilah does not apply to a dead Chatas!
(Beraisa): One may not benefit from Chata'os ha'Mesos (that are left to die because they cannot be offered) or from money that must be cast into the Dead Sea. If one benefited, he did not transgress Me'ilah (because these have no use for Hekdesh or for the Mizbe'ach).
Answer: No. People stay away from Chata'os ha'Mesos even when they are alive, so there is no need to decree Me'ilah after their death. This does not apply to a regular Chatas, for people do not stay away from it when it is alive.
Rav Yosef used Mishnayos to teach about each other, in order to ask a question against Rabah. (Nivlas Ohf Tahor, a Tahor species of bird that died without Shechitah, has Tum'as Beis ha'Beli'ah. I.e. one who swallows it becomes Tamei.)
(Mishnah #1): In all of the above cases (of deviations in the Hakravah of birds), there is no Tum'as Beis ha'Beli'ah and there is Me'ilah, except for Chatas ha'Of offered properly (since it is permitted to Kohanim);
(Mishnah #2): The general rule is, any Pesul ba'Kodesh has Tum'as Beis ha'Beli'ah. Any Pesul not ba'Kodesh has no Tum'as Beis ha'Beli'ah. (Rashi (here) - a Pesul is ba'Kodesh if it arose after the Korban was Hukdash (made Hekdesh). Rashi (Zevachim 68b) - it is after it came to the Mikdash. Perush Kadmon (A, in the Sefer Shnei Perushim Kadmonim on Maseches Me'ilah) - it is after Shechitah (or for birds Melikah, i.e. cutting through the neck with the thumbnail, which is in place of Shechitah). Tosfos (68b, DH Amar) - it is after Kidush in a Kli Shares. Alternatively, it is if the Pesul is valid for other Kodshim.)
(Mishnah #3): Any Pesul b'Kodesh, (Im Alah) Lo Yered.
(Summation of question: Mishnah #1 says that Shinuy Makom (Melikah in the wrong place) has no Tum'as Beis ha'Beli'ah. Therefore, Mishnah #2 calls this Ein Pesulo ba'Kodesh (the same applies to Shinuy Makom of Shechitah), and yet Mishnah #3 says that in such a case, Lo Yered!)
Rabah is refuted.
Assumption: R. Elazar asked about a related law, but he had no Safek about the argument of Rabah and Rav Yosef.
(R. Elazar): If an Olah that was Hukdash for a Bamas Yachid (when this was permitted) was brought into the Mikdash (Tosfos - alive; Rashi (Zevachim) - after Shechitah), it is Niklat (receives the law of Kodshei Mizbe'ach) in every respect.
Question (R. Elazar): If it was brought into the Mikdash, became Pasul (e.g. was slaughtered in the south), and was placed on the Mizbe'ach, is it taken down?
Inference: He asked only about an Olah that was Hukdash for a Bamah. He did not need to ask about an Olah that was Hukdash for the Mizbe'ach. He held like Rabah or like Rav Yosef.
Rejection: No. He was unsure about both:
According to Rabah, perhaps Yerdu applies only to Kodshim that were Hukdash for the Mizbe'ach, but not if they were Hukdash for a Bamah (where there is no Mitzvah of Tzafon, so Kelitah does not absolutely invalidate Shechitas Darom);
According to Rav Yosef, perhaps Lo Yerdu applies only to Kodshim that were Hukdash for the Mizbe'ach, for the Mizbe'ach is Kolet them (it is Mekadesh Pesulim), but it is not Kolet Kodshim that were Hukdash for a Bamah!
This question is not resolved.
(Zerikas Pigul is when Shechitah and Zerikah were done with intent Chutz li'Zemano (Rashi; Tosfos - Zerikah was done Stam, i.e. without specific intent).)
(Rav Gidal): Zerikas Pigul does not remove Me'ilah from (meat of) Kodshei Kodashim, and it does not cause Me'ilah to apply to (Eimurim of) Kodshim Kalim.
Question (Rav Papa - Mishnah): If a Korban Todah was slaughtered inside (the Mikdash) and the loaves (that must be brought with a Todah) were outside the wall (this refers to the wall of Beis Pagi (Yerushalayim, or of Har ha'Bayis), or of the Azarah), the bread is not Mekudash;
If at the time of Shechitah the bread had not yet formed a crust in the oven, even if only one of the loaves did not have a crust, the bread is not Mekudash;
If the Todah was slaughtered Chutz li'Zemano or Chutz li'Mekomo, the bread is Mekudash.
This shows that Zerikas Pigul brings Me'ilah to Kodshim Kalim! (Rashi explains that Me'ilah applies to the bread. Tosfos (here and 4a, DH Ela) - since people eat the breads, Me'ilah does not apply to them! Rather, the breads become Kodesh to be able to become Pasul (through Linah (being left overnight), Yotzei or a Mechusar Kipurim, i.e. one who was Tamei, and he must bring a Korban to complete his Taharah). Likewise, Zerikas Pigul brings Eimurei Kodshim Kalim to Me'ilah. Perhaps Rashi agrees in the conclusion that Me'ilah cannot apply to the bread.)
Abaye could not answer.
Version #1 (Rashi) Answer (R. Aba): (The bread was Mekudash through) Zerikah (with proper intent. Rav Gidal discusses Zerikah with intent Chutz li'Zemano).
Version #2 (Tosfos) Answer (R. Aba): (Pigul is not established until) Zerikah. (Therefore, we cannot learn from Kidush Lechem, which is at the time of Shechitah). (end of Version #2)
Question (Rav Ashi): Ula taught that if a Kometz (the handful taken from a Minchah (flour offering) to be offered on the Mizbe'ach) that is Pigul was thrown on the Mizbe'ach, Pigul is removed.
(The Avodos of Menachos parallel those of Zevachim.) Kemitzah corresponds to Shechitah (and Haktarah is like Zerikah.
Kemitzah alone made the Kometz (fully) Pigul. (Tosfos - 'Pigul is removed' implies that it already was Pigul.) Likewise, Shechitah alone makes Pigul!
Answer (Rava): Ula did not mean that the Kometz is (full) Pigul. Rather, it has an Isur that can lead to Pigul.