Question: Ula said 'if it causes something else (the rest of the Minchah) to become Pigul, all the more so it itself is Pigul!' (The Gemara in Zevachim explains that if Pigul was not uprooted from the Kometz, it could not cause the Shirayim (remainder) to become Pigul!)


Answer: He means that an Isur that can lead to Pigul (was uprooted). (The questioner thought that if it were only an Isur that can lead to Pigul, even if were not uprooted, it could make the Shirayim Pigul. The Tartzan teaches that this is not so.)


(Mishnah - R. Yehudah): The general rule is, if intent Chutz li'Zemano came first, it is Pigul, and there is Kares. If intent Chutz li'Mekomo came first, it is Pasul, and there is no Kares. Chachamim say, in either case it is Pasul, and there is no Kares.)


Question (Ravina): Ilfa taught that Chachamim and R. Yehudah argue about intentions in two different Avodos. E.g. one Siman (the Kaneh (windpipe) or Veshet (foodpipe)) was slaughtered with intent Chutz li'Zemano, the second Siman with intent Chutz li'Mekomo. ('Shechitah' includes from the beginning to the the end, therefore cutting the two Simanim is like two Avodos.) However, if he had both intents in one Avodah, all agree that this is "mixed intents" (and it is Pasul, without Kares. This shows that all agree that if there was intent Chutz li'Zemano in Shechitah, and no improper intent in a later Avodah, it is Pigul!)


Answer (Rav Ashi): Pigul is not established until Zerikah. (When the intents make Pigul,) it takes effect retroactively from the time of the Pigul intentions during Shechitah.


Question: If so, Zerikah with intent of Pigul should also be Mekadesh the Lachmei Todah retroactively (Rashi - regarding Me'ilah; Tosfos - regarding Pigul, and likewise regarding Me'ilah of Eimurei Kodshim Kalim)!


Answer: The Beraisa says that the Lechem is Kadosh. This does not mean that it is Kadosh regarding Me'ilah. Rather, the bread is Mekudash only to (be able to) become Pasul (through Linah, Yotzei or a Mechusar Kipurim - Tosfos) to require burning it.




Support (for Rav Gidal - Beraisa): Me'ilah always applies to Pigul (of Kodshei Kodoshim).


Suggestion: This is even after Zerikah (Rashi - with intent Chutz li'Zemano). This supports Rav Gidal!


Rejection #1: No, it is before Zerikah.


Objection: If so, there is no need to say this (Tosfos - "always"; Shitah - the same applies to a valid Korban, and not only Pigul)!


Rejection #2: Indeed, it is after Zerikah, but it applies to an Olah (but Zerikas Pigul would remove Me'ilah from Korbanos that are eaten).


Objection #1: This is obvious. Me'ilah always applies to an Olah after Zerikah (for Kohanim may not eat it, even if it is not Pigul)!



Objection #2 (Seifa): If the blood was left overnight, even if Zerikah was done later, Me'ilah applies.


We understand this if the Beraisa discusses Chatas, but this is no Chidush regarding Olah!


Question: Surely, the Seifa discusses a Chatas and supports Rav Gidal (Zerikas Pigul is like Zerikah of Nosar (Kodshim after the permitted time), which does not remove Me'ilah). May we infer that also the Reisha (discusses a Chatas and) supports him? (Perush Kadmon (B) - above we said that the Reisha cannot discuss an Olah, for there would be no Chidush. We retract. Perhaps the Reisha is due to the Seifa.)


Rejection of premise: Even the Seifa is not a clear support! (We cannot learn Zerikas Pigul from Zerikas Nosar)!


Question: What is the difference (between them)?


Answer: Nosar came about through leaving the blood overnight. This is considered an action, therefore Zerikas Nosar does not remove Me'ilah;


Pigul came about through intent. This is not considered an action, so Zerikas Pigul can remove Me'ilah.


Support (for Rav Gidal - Beraisa): Me'ilah applies to Pigul of Kodshei Kodashim.


Suggestion: This is even after Zerikah. This supports Rav Gidal!


Rejection: No, it is before Zerikah.


Objection: To reject the support, you must say that Me'ilah does not apply after Zerikah;


If so, why does the Seifa say that Me'ilah does not apply to (Pigul of) Kodshim Kalim? The Beraisa should distinguish within Kodshei Kodashim themselves! Me'ilah applies before Zerikah, but not afterwards!


Observation: The Seifa clearly supports him. (It must be even after Zerikah. There is no Chidush before Zerikah.)


Suggestion: Since the Seifa supports him, also the Reisha (is even after Zerikah)!


Rejection: No. The Tana prefers to teach about Kodshim Kalim, for that law is Pesika (uniform), than to teach the distinction in Kodshei Kodashim, which is not Pesika.




(Mishnah - R. Yehoshua): The general rule is, Me'ilah applies only to things that never had She'as Heter to Kohanim;


The following had She'as Heter -- it was left overnight, became Tamei, or was Yotzei.


The following never had She'as Heter -- it was slaughtered with intent Chutz li'Zemano or Chutz li'Mekomo, or Pesulim did Kabalah and they did Zerikah.