1)

BUYING KORBANOS FROM NOCHRIM (cont.)

(a)

Answer: Regarding the stones of the Efod, it says "Avnei Shoham" (without a 'Vav'), therefore they (Tosfos - and the stones of the Choshen, which follows immediately in the verse) are disconnected from "Bnei Yisrael v'Yikchu."

(b)

Question #1: It says "v'Avnei Milu'im (and the stones of the Choshen)", connecting them (Rashi - and also the stones of the Efod) to "Bnei Yisrael v'Yikchu"!

(c)

Question #2: The next year, a red heifer was born in Dama's herd. He said 'I know that I could receive any price I ask. I request only the money I lost last year.'

(d)

Answer to both questions: They bought (the heifer, and wanted to buy the stone) through a Yisrael middleman (this is considered buying from a Yisrael).

(e)

Question: R. Eliezer is concerned for bestiality!

1.

(Beraisa - Chachamim, to R. Eliezer): A red heifer was bought from a Nochri, i.e. Dama!

2.

R. Eliezer: The case was, Yisraelim guarded it (to ensure that he not have relations with it) from the day it was born.

(f)

Answer: R. Eliezer is concerned for bestiality. He also requires that it be bought from a Yisrael.

(g)

(Beraisa - R. Eliezer): The case was, Yisraelim guarded it from the day it was born.

(h)

Question: According to Rava, we must be concerned lest he had relations with its mother from the time it is formed!

1.

(Rava): If an animal gored a person or had relations with a person, if it was pregnant at the time, the fetus is also disqualified from being a Korban, for it was part of the goring or bestiality.

(i)

Answer: Yisraelim guarded also the mother from the time the fetus was formed.

(j)

Question: We must be concerned lest he had relations with the mother even before this!

1.

(Mishnah): Any animal disqualified from being a Korban, its offspring is valid.

2.

(Beraisa - R. Eliezer): The offspring is disqualified.

3.

The question is not according to Rava;

i.

(Rava): They only argue in a case that the bestiality was after they became Hekdesh. All agree that bestiality when they were Chulin does not disqualify the offspring.

4.

The question is according to Rav Huna bar Chinena;

i.

(Rav Huna bar Chinena): They only argue in a case that the bestiality occurred when they were Chulin, all agree that bestiality when they were Hekdesh disqualifies the offspring.

(k)

Answer: Yisraelim guarded the mother from the time the mother was formed.

(l)

Question: We should be concerned lest he had relations with the mother's mother!

(m)

Answer: (The child is disqualified only because it is disgraceful.) The grandmother is very distant, so we are not concerned for it.

2)

BREEDING A RED HEIFER

(a)

Question: We answered above that Yisraelim guarded the mother from the day the fetus was formed. How did they know that it would be red?

(b)

Answer (Rav Kahana): They pass a red cup in front of the mother during mating. This causes the child to be red.

(c)

Question: Since it is so easy to cause a heifer to be red, why is it so expensive?

(d)

Answer: It is disqualified even if it has two hairs that are not red (this is normally the case).

(e)

Question: Why did we try to make a Nochri's cow red, and not those of Yisraelim?

(f)

Answer (Rav Kahana): Dama's cows were established to have red calves via a cup.

3)

BUYING KORBANOS FROM NOCHRIM

(a)

Version #1 - Rav Papa - (R. Ami or R. Yitzchak Nafcha): Similarly, R. Eliezer disqualified any Korban bought from a Nochri.

(b)

(The other of them): Chachamim challenged R. Eliezer from "Kol Tzon Kedar... Al Ratzon Mizbechi";

1.

R. Eliezer: In the future, they will convert without Beis Din (this is invalid, but in any case they will guard the Mitzvos).

2.

(Rav Yosef): He learns from "Ehfoch El Amim... Likro Kulam b'Shem Hash-m."

3.

Question (Abaye): Perhaps they will cease only idolatry!

4.

Answer (Rav Yosef): The verse ends "Le'avdo Shechem Echad."

(c)

Version #2 - Rav Zvid - (R. Ami and R. Yitzchak Nafcha): Similarly, R. Eliezer disqualified any Korban bought from a Nochri;

1.

Chachamim challenged R. Eliezer: "Kol Tzon Kedar..."

2.

R. Eliezer: In the future, they will convert without Beis Din.

i.

He learns from "Ehfoch El Amim..."

ii.

Question (Rav Yosef): Perhaps they will cease only idolatry!

iii.

Answer (Abaye): The verse ends "Le'avdo Shechem Echad."

(d)

Question (against R. Eliezer): Animals of Miztri'im were acceptable for Korbanos - "Atah Titen b'Yadenu Zevachim."

(e)

Answer: Before the Torah was given, bestiality did not disqualify Korbanos.

(f)

Question: "Va'Yikach Yisro... Olos..."

(g)

Answer: Also this was before the Torah was given.

1.

This is like the opinion that Yisro came before the Torah was given.

24b----------------------------------------24b

(h)

Question: According to the opinion that he came after the Torah was given, how can we answer?

(i)

Answer: He bought Korbanos from Yisraelim.

(j)

Question: "Me'Amaleki... Meitav ha'Tzon veha'Bakar Lema'an Zevo'ach..."

(k)

Answer: They spared the best animals in order to sell them and buy Korbanos.

(l)

Question: Why did they spare only the best animals?

(m)

Answer: They are easiest to sell.

(n)

Question: "Va'Yomer Aravnah (the Yevusi)... ha'Bakar la'Olah veha'Morigim u'Chlei ha'Bakar la'Etzim."

(o)

Answer (Rav Nachman): Aravnah was a Ger Toshav (who observes his Mitzvos).

1.

Question: What are "Morigim"?

2.

Answer: They are planks with indentations. Animals step on them, and the grain is threshed.

4)

THE COWS THAT RETURNED THE ARON

(a)

Question: "V'Es ha'Paros (with which the Plishtim sent the Aron) He'elu Olah."

(b)

Answer: That was an exceptional ruling, due to the miracles.

1.

Support: We must say so, for normally females cannot be Olos!

2.

Rejection: A female is valid for an Olah on a private altar.

i.

(Rav Ada bar Ahavah): "Va'Yikach Shmuel Tele Chalav Echad va'Ya'alehu Olah (he offered a nursing ewe)" teaches that a female is a valid Olah on a private altar.

ii.

Question: "Va'Ya'alehu" is masculine, teaching that he offered the suckling lamb!

iii.

Answer: Even though we pronounce it 'va'Ya'alehu', it is written 'va'Ya'aleha' (feminine).

(c)

(R. Yochanan): If a man has relations with a female animal less than three years old, it will become sterile. (Therefore, Nochrim do not have relation with animals under three, and Chachamim permit buying them for Korbanos);

1.

If it is more than three years old, it will (Tosfos - probably) not become sterile, therefore one may not buy it for a Korban (Tosfos - or leave it with a Nochri).

(d)

Questions: All the verses asked against R. Eliezer (that do not specify that the animals were less than three) may be asked against R. Yochanan!

(e)

Answers: Indeed, they refer only to animals under three.

(f)

Question: "V'Es ha'Paros He'elu Olah"!

(g)

Answer #1: The cows were under three.

(h)

Objection (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Noson): "V'Es Bneihem Kalu va'Bayis" - a cow does not give birth before it is three! (Tosfos - nature has changed, it happens nowadays.)

1.

(Mishnah): If one buys a cow or female donkey less than three years old (from a Nochri, surely it has not given birth). If its first child (after it was bought) is a male, it definitely is a Bechor (a firstborn, which is automatically a Korban), so he must give it to a Kohen;

2.

If he buys one above three years old (perhaps it already gave birth), if its first child (after it was bought) is a male, we are in doubt (perhaps it is a Bechor. We must wait for it to get a blemish, then it may be eaten. The owner need not give it to a Kohen).

(i)

Answer #2: Rather, we must say like above, that it was an exceptional ruling.

(j)

Question: What does it mean "va'Yisharnah ha'Paros ba'Derech"?

(k)

Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): They sang.

(l)

Answer #2 (Rav Zutra bar Tuviyah): They faced the Aron and sang.

(m)

Question: What did they sing?

(n)

Answers (R. Yochanan... ): "Az Yashir Moshe...", "Hodu la'Shem... Hodi'u va'Amim Alilosav", the anonymous (Rashi; Tosfos - unspecified) Mizmor - "Mizmor Shiru la'Shem... Nifla'os Asah", "Hash-m Molach Yirgezu Amim Yoshev Keruvim Tanut ha'Aretz", "Hash-m Molach Ge'us Lavesh" or 'Roni Roni ha'Shita... ''

(o)

(Rav): Parsim call a Sefer 'Devir.' Their source is "v'Shem Devir Lefanim Kiryas Sefer."

(p)

(Rav Ashi): They call a Nidah 'Dushtana', taken from "Derech NaSHim Li" (Rashi; Maharsha - they do not use a word solely for Nidah, just like the Torah said "Derech Nashim" in place of Nidah).

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