More Discussions for this daf
1. Comparing Kidushin to Gitin 2. Through a Shtar 3. Three ways
4. Tosfos DH Hacha 5. Kesef 6. Kidushin Against A Woman's Wishes
7. Darko Shel Ish la'Chazor 8. Misas ha'Ba'al 9. Kicha Ikrei Kinyan
10. Use of Derech in Masculine and Feminine Terms 11. Kesef as Kidushin 12. Kicha Ikrei Kinyan
13. Tosfos DH I Nami 14. First Tosfos here and in Kesuvos 15. Tosfos DH I Nami
16. Parallels to Yibum and the 3 Methods 17. Who Owns the Ring 18. Kidushin 002: Tosfos DH b'Perutah
19. Derech-Davar 20. Conjunction of multiple acquisitions 21. Kidushin against a woman's will
22. Comparing the term "ha'Ishah Niknis" to "ha'Ish Mekadesh" 23. Get for Yibum 24. Eirusin
25. ha'Isha Niknes 26. Erusin vs. Nisu'in 27. Hiskadshi Li in Rashi
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 2

ben fish asked:

Why does rashi, on the first mishna use the loshon of hiskadshi li, wehn referring to kidushin through biah instead of harei at mikudeshet li? When it comes to shtar the gemara lists a number of different phrases includein these two... are they really different or just a variation of the same thing?

Also, why is kidushin learned out from efron? I understand they are both kinyanim but why efron? what does the purchase of mearas hamachpelah have to do with kidushin?

Thank you for your time - Freilichin chanukah!!

ben fish, Woodmere, NY

The Kollel replies:

The Imrei Binyamin explains that the words of the Kidushin must be said in front of Eidim. Therefore, Rashi changes his expression from Kesef and Shtar to Bi'ah. This is because the Eidim of Kesef and Shtar are present at the time of the Kidushin and must see the actual handing over of the money or Shtar. However, as far as Kidushei Bi'ah are concerned the Eidim are not present at the time of Bi'ah, but must witness that the man and lady were secluded together for a time sufficient for a Bi'ah to have taken place. This is due to the rule known as Hein Hein Eidei Yichud Hein Hein Eidei Bi'ah.

This being the case, for Kidushei Bi'ah the man would have to say the words of Kidushin to the lady in front of the Eidim before they were secluded, in order for the Eidim to bear witness to them. For this reason Rashi changes to the past tense in the case of Kidushei Bi'ah, since at the time of Kidusin the words have already been said. Similarly, he does not say Harei At, which denotes the present tense, in other words you are now becoming my wife, but Hiskadshi Li, meaning become my wife which implies that she should do so in the future.

I do not think there is any special connection between Kidushin and Efron (aside from the fact that both are Kinyanim as you point out). The Gemara learns Kidushin from Efron with a Gezeirah Shavah. For this type of Limud it is not necessary for the two concepts to be connected, as long as the law written in relation to one is suitable by the other.

Dov Freedman