Question: It becomes as if a monkey drew it, since it was filled not in its time, and K'lei Shareis are not subject to Kedushah outside their time?

Refuted Answer: And if we will suggest that when night falls it should become sanctified, since nighttime is not considered premature, and it will become Pasul be'Linah.

Refutation: Seeing as, when all's said and done, it was drawn beforehand, it must be considered as if a monkey drew it? ...

Source: As we find in Perek Sh'tei ha'Lechem (Menachos, Daf 100a & 100b), in connection with the Lechem ha'Panim which they arranged after Shabbos' - where, even if it was left on the Shulchan many days, it doesn't matter, since it is as if a monkey arranged them.

Answer: The cases are not comparable, since it is different here, because drawing the water requires neither Kohen nor Bigdei Kehunah.

Question: But was the golden jar which holds the three Lugin not sanctified, bearing in mind that the Tana does not say that it was not, as it does by the barrel? And nothing is said about sanctifying the water in a K'li Shareis before pouring it out ...

Question (cont.): How could they then draw from the water of the Shilo'ach, because, seeing as it was sanctified in a K'li Shareis, it would be subject to the P'sul of Yotzei (leaving the Azarah), just as it is subject to that of Linah?

Support #1: And Rashi explicitly says this at the beginning of 'Sh'tei Midos; (Menachos, Daf 87b & 88a) in connection with the 'Shulchan' - 'But it is sanctified to become Pasul be'Linah and be'Yotzei'.

Support #2: And in Perek ha'Mizbe'ach Mekadesh (Zevachim, Daf 88a) Rashi explains - 'But they are sanctified to be Pasul in the event that they leave the hangings or if they are touched by a T'vul-Yom'.

Support #3: Rabeinu Sh'lomoh (Rashi) also explains in the second Perek of Zevachim (Daf 20b & 21a) in connection with the She'eilah 'Whether Yetzi'ah is effective by Kidush Yadayim ve'Raglayim' - 'Like all Kodshim in a K'li, which become Pasul b'Yotzei'.

Question (concl.): The question therefore remains as to why the water in the jar does not become Pasul be'Yotzei?

Refutation of Question: The Kashya from here however, is not such a good one, since K'lei Shareis do not render Kadosh outside as long as it has not entered the Azarah ...

Source: As Shmuel explicitly states in Perek ha'Mizbe'ach Mekadesh (Ibid., Daf 88a) - 'K'lei Shareis only render Kadosh from the inside (of the K'li) and only from inside the Azarah.

Introduction to Question #1: But there is a Kashya from the first Perek of Menachos (Daf 9a & 9b) where they argue over a Minchah that was mixed outside the Azarah; Resh Lakish declares it Kasher - 'Since it does not require Kehunah, it does not need to be inside the Azarah either' ...

Introduction to Question #1 (cont.): Whilst Rebbi Yochanan declares it Pasul - 'Since it was prepared in a K'li, it must be performed inside, even though it does not require Kehunah' ...

Question: From which we see that, despite the fact that it was sanctified inside, it does not become Pasul be'Yotzei?

Introduction to Question #2: And the same is implied in Perek ha'Techeiles (Ibid. 47a), where Rav Sheishes said 'Those Tana'im hold like Rebbi, who says that 'The Shechitah sanctifies (the Minchah)' - meaning that it is then eligible to become Pasul be'Yotzei ...

Introduction to Question #2 (cont.): And at the end of the Sugya there (on Daf 48a) it says 'That it does not go like Rebbi, because if it did, since he says that 'the Shechitah sanctifies', where did he redeem them? If it was outside, it will have become Pasul be'Yotzei?' ...

Question #2: Implying that it only becomes Pasul be'Yotzei because 'the Shechitah sanctifies it', otherwise, not? ...

Question #2 (cont.): Even though Rebbi holds, in Perek Rebbi Yishmael (Menachos, Daf 72b) that the oven sanctifies it.

Refutation: It is possible however to refute this, in that Menachos that come together with a Korban are different ...

Proof: Since we see that Nesachim that come together with a Korban only become Pasul be'Linah with the Shehitah of the Korban, as Ze'iri states in Perek ha'Todah (Menachos, 79a), whereas on their own, we learned in the Mishnah in Me'ilah (Daf 10a) that 'As soon as they become sanctified in a K'li, they become Pasul be'Linah'.

Refutation (See Maharsha): It is also noteworthy that the Mishnah in the second Perek of Me'ilah (Ibid.) - 'If one sanctified them inside a K'li, they are eligible to become Pasul via a T'vul-Yom, a Mechusar Kipurim and Linah', does not incluse 'Yotzei' ...

Question (cont.): Even though it could have done so with regard to birds and Zevachim ...

Answer: It does not do so, because, since it does not mention it in connection with the Two Loaves, the Lechem ha'Panim and the Menachos, it does not mention it with regard to them either.

Implied Question: And when the Gemara says in Perek Kol Sha'ah (Pesachim, Daf 36a) in connection with the kneading of the Menachos 'Granted it is not performed by 'the keen ones' (Kohanim), it is performed in their location' (i.e. in the Azarah) ...

Answer: That is the norm., since it the done thing to perform it there (but it is not obligatory).

Implied Question: And as for the 'Yetzi'ah' with regard to Kidush Yadayaim ve'Raglayim ...

Answer: That is not because of Yotzei, but, as the Gemara explains there, because, once he leaves the Azarah, he is 'Masi'ach Da'as' (takes his mind off the Avodah).

Implied Question #1: And when the Gemara in Perek Sh'tei ha'Lechem (Menahos, Daf 95b) asks 'You said that their kneading and arranging are performed outside' - so we see that the dry measure was not sanctified?' ...

Implied Question #2: And similarly at the end of 'Kol ha'Menachos Ba'os Matzah' (Ibid., Daf 63a) when Rebbi Yieshmael Darshens from "Tanur" "Tanur" twice, that the Minchah should be both baked and sanctified in the oven' ...

Implied Question #2 (cont.): And it queries this from Rebbi Shimon in the Mishnah - 'One should be accustomed to say that the Sh'tei ha'Lechem and the Lefchem ha'Panim are Kasher both in the Azarah and in Beis Pagi (an area outside the walls of the Azarah) ...

Implied Questions #1 & #2 (concl.): This is not because if they would be sanctified they would be Pasul be'Yotzei ...

Answer: But because it would be reprehensible to take something that has been sanctified out of the Azarah.

Question: Seeing as being sanctified by a K'li Shareis does not cause it to become Pasul be'Yotzei, at which point will a Minchas Kohanim and Chavitei Kohen Gadol, both of which are not subject to Kemitzah, beome Pasul be'Yotzei?

Answer: Certainly, in those cases, Kidush K'li will be effective.

Precedent: Similarly, the Gemara, at the end of 'Beis Shamai' (Zevachim, 45b) says that 'If Kodshim that have Matirin, sacrificing the Matirin renders them subject to a Chiyuv for Tum'ah; If they don't, then, when it is sanctified in a K'li Shareis'.

Question: According to what Tosfos stated earlier - that K'lei Shareis only sanctify inside, the Kashya remains 'Let them fetch the water in a K'li Shareis, but not bring it into the Azarah until after Amud ha'Shachar, to prevent it from becoming Pasul be'Linah?

Answer #1: In that case, what would they gain by fetching it in a K'li Shareis?

Answer #2: Moreover, it would be reprehensible to leave it outside in a K'li Shareis for so long.

Question #1: In Perek ha'Todah (Menachos, Daf 78b) They argue over a 'Todah that has been Shechted on eighty Chalos'; Chizkiyah holds forty out of the eighty are sancrified, Rebbi Yochanan, that they are not ...

Question #1 (cont.): Abaye concludes there that they are arguing over whether 'K'li Shareis sanctify without Da'as'; Chizkiyah holds that they are?

Question #2: Likewise, there is a Kashya from Rebbi Yochanan on Rebbi Yochanan - since Rav Papa says there that 'Everyone holds K'lei Shareis sanctify without Da'as'?

Question #2 (cont.): Whereas in the first Perek of Menachos (Daf 7a & 7b) with regard to the Kemitzah of Pesulin, where the Beraisa says 'That only speaks where he (the Kohen) performed Kemitzah; but if he sanctified it (the Kometz), it is Pasul' ...

Question #2 (concl.): And in answer to the Gemara's question 'If he returns the Kometz to its place, why does it not become sanctified and (therefore) Pasul?, Rebbi Yochanan answers 'That means to say - 'K'li Shareis only render Kadosh when there is Da'as'?

Answer (Question #2): One can answer Rebbi Yochanan however by saying that the Todah is different in that 'Since one one can declare Kadosh forty out of the eighty with Da'as, one can also declare them Kadosh without Da'as ...

But not Question #1: But the Kashya from here (on Chizkiyah) remains, since the water has no Shi'ur, yet they do not sanctify without Da'as?

Answer (Question #1): It is different here, since it is not in the correct time ...

Implied Question: And even though the Gemara says at the end of 'Sh'tei ha'Lechem' (Ibid, Daf 100a) that 'K'lei Shareis sanctify even not in the correct time' ...

Anwer: Nevertheless the fact that it is not in the correct time makes it worse with regard to she'Lo mi'Da'as.

Implied Question: The reaon that the Tana did not say 'What is the case of Yom-Tov that falls on Shabbos, the flute is played on six days; on other days of the week, five'?, as he did above in Perek Lulav va'Aravah (Daf 42b) is ...

Answer: Because he wants to continue with 'The flute of Beis ha'Sho'eivah', from which the Gemara extrapolates 'It is this case which does not override Shabbos, but that of the Korban, does'.

Introduction to Question: Even though playing the flute is only forbidden because 'One may come to make an instrument' ...

Source: Like the prohibition against clapping one's hands or banging them against one's thigh in Perek Mashilin (Beitzah, Daf 36b) ...

Question: And we rule (in Pesachim, 65a) that Shevusin (Rabbinical decrees) do not apply in the Beis ha'Mikdash' ...

Answer: The Beis ha'Sho'eivah is different, as the Gemara explains (on 51a) ...

Reason: That 'it only comes to increase the Simchah'.

'Sho'eivah': The Yerushalmi explains that 'from there one draws Ru'ach ha'Kodesh, since the Shechinah descends upon a person when he is joyful ...

Source: As the Pasuk writes (in Melachim 2, chap. 3) "And it was when the minstrel played, the spirit of Hash-m came upon him" ...

Example: And it cites the case of Yonah ben Amitai, who was among those who made Aliyas ha'Regel, and upon whom the Shechinah rested during the Simchas Beis ha'Sho'eivah.

Observation: At the beginning of Maseches Avodah-Zarah (Daf 2a & 2b), in connection with 'Eideihen' (with an 'Ayin') and 'Ideihen' (with an 'Alef'), the Gemara explains why the one opinion states 'Eideihen' and not 'Ideihen' ...

Observation (cont.): Which it does not do here ...

Examples: Nor in many other places - such as at the beginning of 'Keitzad Me'abrin' (Eruvin, Daf 53a), where we find 'Me'abrin' (with an 'Ayin') & 'Me'abrin' (with an 'Alef'); in Perek ha'Gozel Basra (Bava Kama, Daf 116b) in connection with 'Masikin' & 'Matzikin'; At the beginning of the second Perek of Yevamos (Daf 17a & 17b) in connection with 'Rishonah & 'Sheniyah', and similarly in Perek Mashilin (Beitzah, Daf 35b).

Question #1: In Perek ha'Motzei Tefilin (Eruvin, Daf 102b) the Mishnah permits tying the thread of a violin in the Beis-hsa'Mikdash but not anywhere else', whilst another Tana cited in the Gemara maintains that 'They only tied it with a bow but not with a knot' ...

Question #1 (cont.): And their Machlokes is confined to repairing the instrument - whether it overrides Shabbos, since it is in preparation of a Korban, or not; all agree however, that the actual Shir does ...

Question #2: The Mishnah in the second Perek of Erchin (Daf 10a) also learned that 'During the course of the year, there are twelve days on which the flute is played in front of the Mizbe'ach - during the Shechitah of Pesach Rishon and of Pesach Sheini; on the first day of Pesach; on the Yom-Tov of Shavu'os, and uring the eight days of Sukos' ...

Question #2 (cont.): So we see that it overrides both Shabbos and Yom-Tov, since there cannot be eight days of Sukos without Shabbos?

Partial Answer: According to Rav Yirmiyah bar Aba, who concludes in our Sugya (Daf 51a) that the Tana'im are arguing over the Shir of Simchas Beis ha'Sho'eivah, but that with regard to the Shir of the Korban, the problem is resolved ...

Question (concl.): Whereas Rav Yosef is disproved from a Beraisa (See Hagahos ve'Tziyunim, 6 & Maharsha).

Answer: We must therefore forced to say that Rav Yosef would establish the Mishnos in Erchin and in Eruvin like Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah.

Question #1: The Kashya remains however, that at the end of Tamid Nishchat (Pesachim, 65a) it implies that 'Ein Sh'vus ba'Mikdash' is obvious, and that even Rebbi Nasan, who holds is strict there, concedes that they permiited a Sh'vus when necessary?

Question #2: Furthermore we learned in the Mishnah in the current Perek (Daf 53b) in connection with 'the Teki'os in the Beis-ha'Mikdash' - that Every day they blew twenty-one Teki'os, even on Shabbos, as the Gemara extrapolates from the words 'every day' ...

Question #2 (cont.): And there is no Tana there who argues with that?

Refuted Answer: We cannot answer that those Teki'os are d'Oraysa ...

Refutation: Since the Tana lists three for the opening of the gates, and three that they blew on Erev Shabbos to remind the people to stop work, which override Yom-Tov that falls on Friday ...

Source: As we learned in the first Perek of Chulin (Daf 26b) 'Yom-Tov that falls on Friday, one blows but does not recite Havdalah, where they blew with a slight change, the reason for which the Gemara explains there.

Refutation (cont.): And all those cases there are de'Rabanan, yet they did not forbid them in the Beis ha'Mikdash, whereas by drawing the water, which has a Pasuk "u'She'avtem Mayim be'Sason", they did (See Hagahos ve'Tziyunim)?

Answer: Because there were there many instruments - flutes, harps, cymbals and lyres (later, Daf 51b), which constantly required fixing, they decreed more than they did there where only a Shofar was required, since they do not need fixing ...

Answer (cont.): And since they decreed by them, they also forbade drawing the water on Yom-Tov, as is evident in the current Perek ...

Source: When it asks 'If so, They should also not reckon Friday of in the middle of Sukos, since sometimes it dos not occur - such as when the first day of Yom-Tov falls on Friday ...

Source (cont,): Meaning that the Teki'os will fall short, since they will not then blow for the water-drawing, for the reason that Tosfos just explained ...

Reason: Because, since they tended to have such a large variety of instruments, as we learned in the Mishnah in our Perek (Daf 51b), they decreed not to blow at all.