Explanation #3 (cont.): Similarly, the Tosefta in Zavim (1:13) of one who saw two Bein ha'Shemashos, he is Vadai for Tum'ah and Safek for a Korban. Also this discusses when we know, e.g. he saw both days at the beginning of Bein ha'Shemashos.

Alternatively, we discuss when he saw all of R. Yosi's Bein ha'Shemashos. He says that Bein ha'Shemashos is like an eye's blink, and there is not a Shi'ur for three sightings.

Question: Here it connotes that from Shki'ah until night is only [the time to walk] three quarters of a Mil;

R. Yehudah himself holds in Pesachim (94a) that from Shki'ah until Tzeis ha'Kochavim night is [the time to walk] four Mil;

Tzeis ha'Kochavim is night, like we say in Pesachim (2a) and it is proven in a verse "v'Anachnu Osim Melachah...", from which we prove in Megilah (20b) that day begins at dawn!

Answer (R. Tam): There we discuss from the beginning of Shki'ah, and here "from Shki'ah" is the end of Shki'ah, after the sun enters the thickness of the Raki'a.

Question (Ri): What do [Rabah and Rav Yosef] argue about? Surely from Tzeis ha'Kochavim is night, like I explained!

Answer: We say below that we do not refer to big [stars] that are seen [even] during the day, and not to small [stars]... rather, to medium stars. They argue, for according to Rav Yehudah there is a Safek about all the stars visible from Shki'ah until the top [of the sky] darkens, whether or not they are medium stars.

Question: We can see how long it takes an average person to walk four Mil from Shki'ah, like it says in Pesachim (and then is Tzeis ha'Kochavim. Why do Rabah and Rav Yosef argue about this?!)

Answer: They are unsure what is considered an average person.

Note: Tosfos assumes that they agree to Pesachim 94a, and when is Tzeis ha'Kochavim, and about the duration of Bein ha'Shemashos. He answers that they argue about how far a person walks in this time, i.e. three quarters of a Mil (Rabah) or two thirds (Rav Yosef). This is difficult. In Pesachim, a Beraisa teaches that one walks 40 Mil in a day of Nisan or Tishrei, and four Mil between dawn and sunrise, and four between Shki'ah and Tzeis. If "day" is from dawn until Tzeis, there are 32 Mil from sunrise until Shki'ah (12 hours, i.e. 720 minutes), so each Mil takes 22.5 minutes. If "day" is from sunrise until Shki'ah, 40 Mil are 720 minutes, so each Mil is 18 minutes. Perhaps for walking, "day" is from dawn until Shki'ah (even though in mid'day', the sun is not in the middle of the sky), for one should finish traveling each day "b'Chi Tov" (while the sun shines, i.e. before Shki'ah) and start b'Chi Tov. Many say that he begins from sunrise, but Bava Kama 60b and Ta'anis 10b connote that he begins from day, i.e. dawn. If Rabah holds like this, he walks 36 Mil in 720 minutes, so each Mil is 20 minutes. If Rav Yosef counts from sunrise until Tzeis, each Mil is 22.5 minutes, so both agree that Bein ha'Shemashos is 15 minutes. However, if so they argue about whether there are 80 or 90 minutes between Shki'ah and Tzeis, and whether Bein ha'Shemashos begins 65 or 75 minutes after Shki'ah! Why didn't Tosfos say that they differ only (by one part in 12 of a Mil, less than two minutes) about when Bein ha'Shemashos begins? The signs of this (based on darkness of the sky, or seeing two medium stars) are subjective! (Alternatively, perhaps 'three quarters' and 'two thirds' are not precise - Chachamim may give approximations to be stringent - and Rabah counts from sunrise until Tzeis, and Rav Yosef counts from sunrise until Shki'ah.) Alternatively, both agree when Bein ha'Shemashos begins. They argue about Shki'ah - is it when the sun starts to go below the horizon, or when it is totally below, about two minutes later? Both agree that Tzeis is four Mil after this.

Pesak: The Halachah does not follow this, that it loses the status of a Kli due to its weight.

Source: It says in Eruvin (102a) that there was a beam in R. Pedas' house that required 10 people to move it [due to its weight]. They put it next to the door. He said [that it is permitted] because it is considered a Kli.

Support: Even Abaye did not accept [Rabah's teaching], like we say below (45b. R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish say that even R. Shimon forbids a Menorah. Rabah explained that) a Menorah is different (one may not move it), because a person fixes a place for it;

Abaye said to him, a person fixes a place for Kilas Chasanim (a canopy over a bed), yet one may spread [the covering] or take it down on Shabbos! Rather, Abaye said [that they discuss a Menorah composed of rings. We are concerned lest it come apart and he will fix it.]

Citation: [R. Aba bar Kahana] said below (121b) that one may move candlesticks of Rebbi's house on Shabbos. R. Zeira asked, is this only if they can be moved with one hand, or even if they require two hands? [R. Aba] said "they are like those of your father's house."

Explanation #1: They are big.

Explanation #2 (R. Chananel, Rashi): They are small, like those of your father's house.

Rejection: It is proven below (46a) that a Menorah without grooves (it does not look like it must be assembled), all permit it. These are big candlesticks!

Explanation #1 (Rashi): After the time to descend and ascend, it is [Vadai] night.

Objection: He should not have given the Shi'ur based on Tevilah, if not to teach that it is a proper Tevilah! (I.e. it is Vadai during the day, so at night he has Ha'arev Shemesh and he is totally Tahor.)

Explanation #2: The Yerushalmi in Brachos connotes that when he ascends, Bein ha'Shemashos begins. Now, it teaches that he had a proper Tevilah, and he gets Ha'arev Shemesh.

Implied question: According to this, [R. Chanina] should have said also "one who wants to know Bein ha'Shemashos of R. Yehudah!" (Perhaps Tosfos asks why he mentioned only Bein ha'Shemashos of R. Nechemyah. Alternatively, since R. Yochanan rules like R. Yehudah, it would be better to teach "... of R. Yehudah." However, perhaps R. Chanina taught "... of R. Nechemyah" because he rules like him!)

Answer: Perhaps he holds like Rav Yosef, that Bein ha'Shemashos of R. Yehudah does not begin from Shki'ah, rather, from when the lower horizon darkens.

Question: [R. Yochanan] should not have said [that the Halachah follows R. Yosi regarding Terumah] for such a small amount of an eye's blink! (People cannot be so precise. He should have ruled Stam (totally) like R. Yehudah, and even so no one would eat Terumah in the half-second between R. Yehudah's Shi'ur of night and R. Yosi's!)

Suggestion: The eye's blink of R. Yosi (his Bein ha'Shemashos) does not begin immediately after R. Yehudah's. It is much later.

Rejection: If so, in Rav Yehudah's teaching "according to R. Yosi, Kohanim may immerse in Bein ha'Shemashos of R. Yehudah", why did he say Bein ha'Shemashos? They may immerse also after R. Yehudah's Bein ha'Shemashos, according to R. Yosi!

Answer #1: It is not so much later that there is time to immerse in between.

Answer #2: They were unsure whether [Bein ha'Shemashos of R. Yosi] begins immediately after that of R. Yehudah's, or if it is much later. Therefore, he needed to rule that Kohanim may not eat Terumah until R. Yosi's Shi'ur Vadai finished.

Note: It is not taught anywhere how much later R. Yosi's Shi'ur could be! Perhaps due to this uncertainty, people may not rely on the Shi'urim of R. Yehudah based on when the sky darkens, or the time to walk two thirds or three quarters of a Mil after Shki'ah. Rather, they must wait until they see stars.

Question (Rav Pores): (Why did R. Yochanan rule like R. Yehudah regarding Shabbos, and like R. Yosi regarding Terumah?) He could have taught entirely regarding Shabbos! The Halachah (about when Melachah is permitted) follows R. Yehudah on Erev Shabbos, and R. Yosi on Motza'ei Shabbos!

Similarly, he could have taught [entirely] about Terumah! The Halachah follows R. Yehudah regarding Tevilah (how late Kohanim may immerse, and eat Terumah at night), and R. Yosi regarding eating (when they may eat)!

Answer (Ri): He prefers to teach a Chidush that even regarding Shabbos, which is stringent, R. Yosi is lenient, and permits Melachah during R. Yehudah's Bein ha'Shemashos...

And even regarding Terumah, which is lenient, R. Yosi is stringent, and forbids Kohanim to eat until his own Shi'ur of Bein ha'Shemashos finishes.

Explanation (Rashi): The fourth [blast] is to light Ner [Shabbos].

Support #1: He does not argue about the first two [blasts, to say that one lights the Ner then. Rather, he holds that the blast after the third is to light the Ner.]

Support #2: It says below "the second is to light the Ner. Like whom is this? It is unlike R. Nasan, and unlike R. Yehudah ha'Nasi!"

Suggestion: [R. Yehudah ha'Nasi] means that the third is even to remove Tefilin, and he lights also at the third.

Rejection: It says "the third is to light the Ner. This is like R. Noson." This connotes that it is unlike R. Yehudah ha'Nasi!

Question: In Sanhedrin (68a), regarding R. Eliezer fell sick, and it was Erev Shabbos, and his son Hurkenus entered to remove his [father's] Tefilin. His father rebuked him, and [Hurkenus] left reprimanded;

[R. Eliezer] said "how do people abandon (lighting the Ner, which if it is done too late is) an Isur punished by stoning, and engage in [removing Tefilin, lest they remain on until night, which is] a mere Isur mid'Rabanan?!

Inference: Lighting the Ner should precede removing Tefilin!

Answer: There was different. Due to his illness, they delayed lighting the Ner because they were distracted with [needs of] him, until it was close to dark. Therefore, he said that they should engage first in an Isur Skilah.

Strengthening of answer: We can prove from there that [normally] removing Tefilin comes to first, since Hurkenus wanted to remove Tefilin before lighting. Presumably, he knew what they usually do [first].

Explanation (Rashi): They used to blow Teki'ah Teru'ah Teki'ah.

Implied question: Below, it connotes that the first three were Teki'os! It says "he began Lisko'a (to blow Teki'ah). The second Teki'ah...

Answer: This is not precise. (Really, the second blast was Teru'ah).

Support: In Sukah (53a), a Mishnah teaches "we do not have less than 21 Teki'os [each day] in the Mikdash, and we do not have more than 48 Teki'os. It counts, among the 48, three to stop the nation from doing Melachah;

The Gemara says "our Mishnah is unlike R. Yehudah, for in a Beraisa, R. Yehudah says that one may not blow less than seven, and not more than 16";

It explains the argument. R. Yehudah holds that "Teki'ah Teru'ah Teki'ah" counts as one.

If the three to stop the nation from doing Melachah are all Teki'os, why does R. Yehudah count them like one?

Question (Ri): You are forced to say that we permit moving a Shofar for the need of itself (a permitted use) or its place!

To move it from the sun to the shade [lest it get ruined], even R. Shimon forbids, like I will explain below, that a Shofar is Melachto l'Isur (its primary use is forbidden on Shabbos).

The Beraisa above, which forbids hiding it away, is like from the sun to the shade (it is not for a current need. It is only to avoid loss). It is like a shovel, lest it be stolen (below, 124b) which is moving not for a need. (If so, what is the Gemara's question?!)

Answer #1 (Ri): [The Makshan] understands that the Beraisa forbids even for the need of itself or its place, since it teaches "since we do not move", and it did not teach "since we may not hide away."

Question: Since here, "moving a Shofar" refers to for the need of itself, if so, why may one not move a trumpet?

Answer: A trumpet is more Muktzah, like I will explain below.

Answer #2: Rashi connotes that a Shofar is Melachto l'Heter. (If so, Question (a) is not difficult.)