A MURDERER WHO WAS MIXED WITH OTHERS (cont.)
Objection (Rava - Beraisa - R. Yosi): The law of the Mishnah applies even if Aba Chalifta (a great Chasid) is among them! (This shows that we discuss people. This also refutes R. Avahu, for if we know that all of them murdered, it makes no difference if one used to be a great Tzadik.)
Answer #3 (Rava): The Mishnah discusses two people who were standing together, and one of them shot an arrow (the witnesses did not see which) and it killed someone. Both are exempt;
R. Yosi says (in the Beraisa) that this applies even if Aba Chalifta was one of the two (and surely, the other shot the arrow)!
(Mishnah): If a sentenced ox was mixed with regular oxen, we stone all of them;
R. Yehudah says, we put them in Kipah.
(Beraisa): If a cow gored and gave birth before it was sentenced, the calf is permitted;
If it gave birth after it was sentenced, one may not benefit from the calf;
If the cow became mixed with other cows, and those became mixed with other cows, we put all of them in Kipah;
R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon says, Beis Din stones them.
IS THE CHILD OF A SENTENCED COW FORBIDDEN?
(Beraisa): If a cow gored and gave birth before it was sentenced, the calf is permitted.
Inference: This is even if the cow was pregnant with the calf at the time of the goring!
Question: Rava taught that the calf of a cow that gored is forbidden (to be a Korban if) it (was inside at the time, so its weight) participated in the goring;
If a man was Rove'a a cow, the calf is forbidden, for it was also party to the bestiality!
Answer #1 - Correction (Beraisa): Rather, if a cow gored, became pregnant and gave birth before it was sentenced, the calf is permitted.
If it became pregnant and gave birth after it was sentenced, the calf is forbidden.
Question: This is like the opinion that forbids Zeh v'Zeh Gorem (something that results from two (or more) causes, and one of the causes is forbidden. Here, the calf's mother is forbidden, and its father is permitted);
However, according to the opinion that permits Zeh v'Zeh Gorem, how can we answer?
Answer #2 (Ravina): Rather, we correct the Beraisa to say as follows:
If a cow gored, became pregnant and gave birth before it was sentenced, the calf is permitted.
If it gored, became pregnant, was sentenced and then gave birth, the calf is forbidden. A fetus is considered part of its mother (so it was sentenced with its mother).
MURDERERS WHO BECAME MIXED UP
(Mishnah): If people sentenced...(they all receive the lightest Misah).
Inference: This teaches warning for a severe Misah includes warning for lighter Misos (therefore, we can give a lighter Misah).
Rejection (R. Yirmeyah): No, the case is, they were not warned about any particular Misah. The Mishnah is not like R. Yehudah:
(Beraisa): For all other capital transgressions (except for Mesis, who need not be warned), one is killed only through a Sanhedrin, witnesses and warning, and if they told him that he is Chayav Misah;
R. Yehudah says, they must tell him which Misah.
The first Tana learns from the Mekoshesh; (he was not warned which Misah he would receive, for even Moshe did not know until he asked Hash-m, and even so he was killed);
R. Yehudah says, he was killed according to Hora'as Sha'ah (a special ruling for a particular need at the time. Letter of the law he was exempt, for he was not warned which Misah he would receive).
(Mishnah - R. Shimon): If people sentenced to be stoned became mixed...
Rav Yechezkeil was teaching (his text of) our Mishnah to his son Rami:
If people sentenced to be burned became mixed with people sentenced to be stoned, R. Shimon says, we stone them, for this is more lenient;
Rav Yehudah (Rami's brother): Father, do not teach that text. It connotes that if stoning were more stringent, we would burn them. This is not true, for the majority were sentenced to be stoned! ('X became mixed with Y' connotes that there is more Y than X.)
Rav Yechezkeil: Should I teach 'if people sentenced to be stoned became mixed with people sentenced to be burned, R. Shimon says that we stone them, for this is more lenient'?
If so, the Seifa must say 'Chachamim say, we burn them, for this is more lenient';
Since the majority were sentenced to be burned, we would burn them even if burning was not more lenient! (This text is equally problematic!)
Rav Yehudah: This is not problematic. Chachamim did not say that burning is more lenient to explain their law, rather, to argue with R. Shimon who said that stoning is more lenient.
Shmuel (to Rav Yehudah): Do not speak that way to your father!
(Beraisa): If one sees his father transgress a Torah law, he should not say 'father, you transgressed' (for this would embarrass him). Rather, he asks 'father, is this what the Torah says?!''
Objection: This is equally embarrassing!
Correction: Rather, he says 'father, the Torah says...' (the father will understand by himself that he transgressed).