MOED KATAN 25 (10 Elul) - This Daf has been dedicated in memory of Sheina Basha (daughter of Yakov and Dora) Zuckerman, who passed away on 10 Elul, by her children and sons in law.

1)

(a)Which common ruling does our Mishnah issue with regard to tearing Keri'ah, uncovering one's shoulders and serving the Se'udas Havra'ah?

(b)What does the Tana of ...

1. ... our Mishnah mean when he says 'Ein Mavrin Ela al Mitah Zekufah'?

2. ... the Beraisa mean when he says 'Chacham she'Mes, ha'Kol Kerovav'?

(c)How do we initially interpret 'ha'Kol' in our Mishnah to reconcile it with the Beraisa?

(d)What does another Beraisa say about one who fails to tear Keri'ah and mourn for an Adam Kasher (a good Jew)?

(e)How do we then establish our Mishnah to reconcile it with the Beraisa?

1)

(a)Our Mishnah rules - that, on Chol ha'Mo'ed, only a relative may tear Keri'ah, uncover his shoulders and be served the Se'udas Havra'ah.

(b)When the Tana of ...

1. ... our Mishnah rules 'Ein Mavrin Ela al Mitah Zekufah', he means that - after the burial on Chol ha'Mo'ed, the Avelim should be served the Se'udas Havra'ah on a bed that is not overturned bed or couch.

2. ... the Beraisa says 'Chacham she'Mes, ha'Kol Kerovav', he means - to say that everyone is Chayav to tear Keri'ah, uncover his shoulders and be served Se'udas Havra'ah for a Chacham who died (because he is like a relative).

(c)To reconcile our Mishnah ('ha'Kol Kerovav') with the Beraisa, we initially confine it to a Mes who was not a Chacham.

(d)Another Beraisa rules that if someone fails to tear Keri'ah and mourn for an Adam Kasher (a good Jew) - his own children will die young.

(e)Therefore, to reconcile our Mishnah with the Beraisa - we finally establish it by someone who is not an Adam Kasher.

2)

(a)What does the Beraisa actually say will happens to someone who ...

1. ... does not tear Keri'ah on an Adam Kasher?

2. ... actually does?

(b)What is wrong with the original wording of the Beraisa - that one's children die young to induce him to mourn the loss of an Adam Kasher?

(c)Why is everyone who is standing by the Mes when he dies obligated to tear Keri'ah?

2)

(a)The Beraisa informs us that someone who ...

1. ... fails to tear Keri'ah and mourn for an Adam Kasher - will find that his children are dying young.

2. ... actually does - will merit forgiveness for all his sins.

(b)The original wording of the Beraisa, that one's children die young to induce him to mourn the loss of an Adam Kasher, is unacceptable - because it is not Hash-m's way to take a security in advance (only to punish for what has already been done).

(c)Whoever is standing by the Mes when he dies is obligated to tear Keri'ah - because (bearing in mind that both the Torah and the Neshamah are called 'Ner') it is like witnessing a Sefer-Torah burning.

3)

(a)Why did the Chachamim fail to tear Keri'ah when Rav Safra died?

(b)Abaye objected for two reasons, one of them, because the Beraisa does not say 'ha'Rav she'Mes', but 'Chacham she'Mes'. What was the other?

(c)And what did Abaye tell them when they thought ...

1. ... that there was no point in tearing anymore?

2. ... that, in that case, they should tear immediately without making a Hesped?

3)

(a)When Rav Safra died, the Chachamim did not tear Keri'ah - because they claimed, they had never learned anything from him.

(b)Abaye objected for two reasons, one of them, because the Beraisa does not say 'ha'Rav she'Mes', but 'Chacham she'Mes'; the other - because, seeing as they were all contemporaries learning in the same Beis-ha'Medrash, it was inevitable for them not to have been reviewing his statements on a daily basis.

(c)And when they contended ...

1. ... that there was no point in tearing anymore - Abaye reminded them of the Beraisa, which states that, as long as one is busy with the Hesped of a Chacham, the obligation to tear Keri'ah remains intact.

2. ... that, in that case, they should tear immediately without making a Hesped there and then - he quoted the Beraisa 'Chacham Kevodo b'Hespeido', obligating them to make a Hesped immediately.

4)

(a)When Rav Huna died, they wanted to place a Sefer Torah on the bed where he lay (as if to say this man kept was written in that Sefer). On what grounds did Rav Chisda object ...

1. ... to that? What had Rav Tachlifa seen Rav Huna himself do in his lifetime?

2. ... to the fact that, when they were unable to carry the bed through the narrow doorway, they contemplated carrying him away via the rooftops?

3. ... to the fact that they then planned to move him on to a smaller bed, and carry him out through the existing doorway?

(b)What was the source of his reasoning?

(c)How did they subsequently carry him out of the house?

4)

(a)When Rav Huna died, they wanted to place a Sefer Torah on the bed where he lay. Rav Chisda objected ...

1. ... on the grounds - that when Rav Huna was still alive, Rav Tachlifa had seen him remove a Sefer Torah from a bed, and place it on an overturned jar, before sitting on the bed.

2. ... to the fact that, when they were unable to carry the bed through the narrow doorway, they contemplated carrying him away via the rooftops - on the grounds Rav Huna himself had taught him that it was the Kavod of a Chacham to be carried through the door of his house.

3. ... to the fact that they then planned to move him on to a smaller bed, and carry him out through the existing doorway - because Rav Huna had also taught him that it was the Kavod of a Chacham to carry him out on the bed on which he died ...

(b)... and he learned this from a Pasuk in Shmuel, which relates how David transported Aron from the house of Avinadav to the city of David On the same 'new Aron' on which the Pelishtim had sent it back (after having captured it).

(c)They subsequently carried him out of the house - through the new, widened doorway.

5)

(a)Based on Rebbi Aba's Hesped, why did the Shechinah not rest on Rav Huna?

(b)What did Rav Huna do when his son Rav Nachman (or Rav Chanan) queried that from Yechezkel ha'Navi, who prophesied in Chutz la'Aretz?

(c)Rav Chisda explained to him 'Shehayah Kvar', which might mean that although Hash-m appeared to Yechezkel ha'Navi in Chutz la'Aretz, it was an exception. What else might he have meant?

(d)What is the advantage of being buried in Eretz Yisrael?

5)

(a)Based on Rebbi Aba's Hesped - the Shechinah did not rest on Rav Huna - because he lived in Bavel (which was Chutz la'Aretz).

(b)When his son Rav Nachman (or Rav Chanan) queried that from Yechezkel ha'Navi, who prophesied in Chutz la'Aretz - he tapped him with his foot on his shoe (as a hint that he should keep his voice down, so that nobody should hear his question).

(c)Rav Chisda explained to him 'Shehayah Kvar', which might mean that although Hash-m appeared to Yechezkel ha'Navi in Chutz la'Aretz, it was an exception. Alternatively, he meant - that it was because he had already prophesied in Eretz Yisrael.

(d)The advantage of being buried in Eretz Yisrael is - that whoever is buried there, is buried without sin.

6)

(a)What did Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi say when they heard that Rav Huna had arrived in Eretz Yisrael? What was their mistake?

(b)Upon discovering that it was his Aron that had arrived, on what basis did ...

1. ... Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi go out to meet it?

2. ... Rebbi Ili and Rebbi Chanina (or Rebbi Chanina alone) decline to do so?

(c)How do we resolve the discrepancy?

(d)Seeing as Rav Huna's body was still whole, Rebbi Ila and Rebbi Chanina not go out to meet the Aron?

6)

(a)When Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi heard that Rav Huna had arrived in Eretz Yisrael - thinking that he was still alive, they declared that when they lived in Bavel they were totally submissive to him, and now he had followed them there.

(b)Upon discovering that it was his Aron that had arrived ...

1. ... Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi went out to meet it - on the basis of a Beraisa, which obligates paying deference to a coffin in transit.

2. ... Rebbi Ili and Rebbi Chanina (or Rebbi Chanina alone) decline to do so - on the basis of another Beraisa, which rules that it is not necessary.

(c)We resolve the discrepancy - by establishing the former when the body is still complete, and the latter, when it has already begun to decompose.

(d)In spite of the fact that Rav Huna's body was still whole, Rebbi Ila and Rebbi Chanina not go out to meet the Aron - because nobody had informed them this was the case.

7)

(a)On what grounds did they decide to bury Rav Huna next to Rebbi Chiya? What did the two have in common?

(b)And why did Rav Chaga volunteer to do the job?

(c)What did he once witness Rav Huna do when he served him?

(d)Yehudah and Chizkiyah Rebbi Chiya's sons, were buried beside their father. What did the former say to the latter when Rav Chaga entered with Rav Huna's coffin?

(e)How did Rav Chaga avoid getting burnt? What was it that almost burnt him?

7)

(a)They decided to bury Rav Huna beside Rebbi Chiya - because he, like Rebbi Chiya, had spread much Torah in Yisrael.

(b)Rav Chaga volunteered to bury Rav Huna's coffin next to Rebbi Chiya - on the basis of, having served Rav Huna when he (Rav Chaga) had been a Bachur of eighteen (who had never seen Keri), he was aware of his Rebbe's outstanding deeds.

(c)He once witnessed - how Rav Huna fasted forty days because one of his Tefilin-straps had become twisted.

(d)Yehudah and Chizkiyah, Rebbi Chiya's sons, were buried beside their father. When Rav Chaga entered the cave with Rav Huna's coffin - the former told the latter to stand up and move in deference to Rav Huna.

(e)As Chizkiyah stood up, the Shechinah (in the form of a Pillar of Fire) stood with him. Rav Chaga would have got burnt, had he not stood Rav Huna's coffin erect to act as a buffer between the Pillar of Fire and himself (see Rabeinu Chananel).

8)

(a)On what grounds did Rav Yitzchak ...

1. ... object when they wanted to place a Sefer-Torah on Rav Chisda's Aron after he died?

2. ... bar Ami object when they declined to sew (even inexpertly) the garments on which they had torn Keri'ah after Rav Chisda's death?

(b)Rabah bar Rav Huna and Rav Hamnuna both died at the same time and were both being transported to Eretz Yisrael together. Why did the camels stop when they reached a narrow bridge?

(c)What happened to that Arab who arbitrated, deciding that Rabah bar Rav Huna should be taken across first, and the camels complied with his decision?

(d)That child eulogized them with words 'Geza Yeshishim arrived from Bavel, and with him Sefer Milchamos'. To whom did 'Geza Yeshishim' (i.e. the offspring of great men) refer?

(e)'Sefer Milchamos' might have been his description of Rav Hamnuna (with reference to his personal level of learning). What else might it have referred to?

8)

(a)Rav Yitzchak objected when, after Rav Chisda died, they ...

1. ... wanted to place a Sefer Torah on his Aron - on the grounds that Rav Chisda was a disciple of Rav Huna, who forbade it (as we saw earlier).

2. ... declined to sew (even inexpertly) the garments on which they had just torn Keri'ah - because, once they have taken leave of the bed of a Chacham who died, they are permitted to stitch it in an amateurish way.

(b)Rabah bar Rav Huna and Rav Hamnuna both died at the same time and both were being transported to Eretz Yisrael. The camels stopped when they reached a narrow bridge - because each of the deceased considered the other to be more worthy, and therefore refused to go first.

(c)When an Arab decided that Rabah bar Rav Huna should be taken across first, and the camels complied with his decision - his upper and lower teeth fell out.

(d)That child eulogized them with words 'Geza Yeshishim arrived from Bavel, and with him Sefer Milchamos'. 'Geza Yeshishim' (i.e. the off-spring of great men) referred to Rabah bar Rav Huna, who was the head of the Golah (after Rav).

(e)'Sefer Milchamos' might have been that child's description of Rav Hamnuna (with reference to his personal level of learning). It might also have referred to - the battle that had just taken place between them, which resulted in the Arab's teeth falling out.

25b----------------------------------------25b

9)

(a)In reply to Ashi's question, Bar Kipuk the eulogizer, told Rav Ashi that, when he died, he would say in his eulogy 'If the flame set the cedars alight, then what should the ivy do'? What did he mean by that?

(b)What similar analogy did he draw to the Leviathan and to a stormy river?

(c)Which two points caused his rival Bar Avin to object to his eulogy?

(d)He therefore planned to say, he concluded, that one should cry for the mourners and not for the lost article, seeing as the latter were going to rest, and it was the former who would suffer the loss. What was wrong with that?

9)

(a)Bar Kipuk the eulogizer, told Rav Ashi that, when he died, he would say in his eulogy 'If the flame set the cedars alight, then what should the ivy do' - meaning that if great men of Rav Ashi's caliber succumbed to the Angel of Death, then what chance did the ordinary people stand?

(b)In a similar analogy to fish, he continued - 'If the Leviathan is caught on a fish-hook, then what chance do the little fish of the swamps stand?'

(c)Bar Kipuk's rival Bar Avin objected to the analogy of a fire and a fish-hook regarding Rav Ashi.

(d)He therefore planned to say, he concluded, that one should cry for the mourners and not for the lost article, seeing as the latter were going to rest, and it was the former who would suffer the loss. However, that too, was not in order - because he should not have referred to such a Tzadik as a lost article.

10)

(a)What is the significance of Rav Ashi's statement, that neither Bar Kipuk nor Bar Avin could make Chalitzah? What does that have to do with our Sugya?

(b)What sort of Hesped did Bar Kipuk and Bar Avin make when Rav Ashi ultimately died?

(c)What did Rava mean when he said that a third had reached the river Diglas? To whom was he referring?

(d)Rava then asked Bar Avin to pray. What was the gist of his prayer?

10)

(a)Rav Ashi's statement (that neither Bar Kipuk nor Bar Avin could make Chalitzah) was based on the conclusion of the above episode - in which, due to what they had said, the feet of both of them became twisted. Consequently, they walked on their knees, and the Torah says in Ki Setzei "me'Al Raglo" 'and not 'me'El d'me'Al' (that the Yevamah must take the right shoe off the foot of the Yavam, and not from below (or above) the foot.

(b)When Rav Ashi ultimately died - neither Bar Kipuk nor Bar Avin eulogized him, because of the above episode, for which Rav Ashi had been indirectly responsible, and which caused them to become maimed.

(c)When Rava said that a third had reached the river Diglas - he meant himself, because Yisrael are called Shelishis (see Agados Maharsha - perhaps because they are part of the triumvirate Hash-m, Torah and Yisrael), and the Gadol ha'Dor is like the majority of the people.

(d)Rava then asked Bar Avin to pray. The gist of his prayer was - that even if Rava went astray, Hash-m should have mercy on him like He did at the water of Marah (where He also saved Yisrael from thirst, even though they were unworthy).

11)

(a)When they buried Rav Chanin, the Nasi's son-in-law, that eulogizer cried out 'Simchah l'Tugah Nehefchah, Sason v'Yagon Nidbaku ... '. To which incident was he referring?

(b)And what did he mean when he said 'be'Eis Chaninaso Avad Chanino'?

(c)What did they call Rebbi Chanin's son?

(d)Rebbi Yitzchak ben Elazar was referring to Rebbi Yochanan, when he echoed the Pasuk in Amos "v'Hayah ba'Yom ha'Hu, v'Heveisi ha'Shemesh ba'Tzaharayim". To whom had Rebbi Yochanan himself attributed the Pasuk?

11)

(a)When they buried Rav Chanin, the Nasi's son-in-law, and that eulogizer cried out 'Simchah l'Tugah Nehefchah, Sason v'Yagon Nidbaku ... ', he was referring to the sad fact that after a long period of childlessness, Rav Chanin's prayers were answered, and he had a son, but he died on the same day as his son was born.

(b)When he said 'be'Eis Chaninaso Avad Chanino', he meant - that when he was graced (with a son) the one who pleaded for him.

(c)They called Rebbi Chanin's son - Chanan after his father.

(d)Rebbi Yitzchak ben Elazar was referring to Rebbi Yochanan, when he echoed the Pasuk in Amos "v'Hayah ba'Yom ha'Hu, v'Heveisi ha'Shemesh ba'Tzaharayim". Rebbi Yochanan himself had attributed the Pasuk - to Yoshiyah ha'Melech, whose life was cut short (though this cannot be said about Rebbi Yochanan, who learned from Rebbi, yet he outlived Rav and Shmuel [though he was slightly younger than Rav]).

12)

(a)What did Rebbi Aba comment when, upon the death of Rebbi Yochanan, Rebbi Ami observed the Dinim of Shiv'ah and Sheloshim?

(b)From whom did he learn that it was not necessary to do so?

(c)Then why did Rebbi Ami do it?

12)

(a)When, upon the death of Rebbi Yochanan, Rebbi Ami observed the Dinim of Shiv'ah and Sheloshim, Rebbi Aba commented - that it was not necessary to mourn for more than one day, even from a Rebbe from whom one learned Gemara.

(b)He learned this from his father Rebbi Chiya bar Aba quoting Rebbi Yochanan himself. declared that Rebbi Ami did what he did entirely of his own accord.

(c)And what Rebbi Ami did, he did entirely on his own accord.

13)

(a)About whom did a certain eulogizer declare 'Bavel carried him and bore him, Eretz Yisrael reared the one of whom it was fond' (which we already learned in Megilah)?

(b)And he concluded 'Oy Na Lah, Amrah Rekes, Ki Avdah Klei Chemdasah', since that is where the Niftar lived. What is 'Rekes' better-known as?

13)

(a)A certain eulogizer declared 'Bavel carried him and bore him, Eretz Yisrael reared the one of whom it was fond' - about Rebbi Zeira, who grew up in Bavel, but later moved to Eretz Yisrael (ass we learned in Megilah).

(b)And he concluded 'Oy Na Lah, Amrah Rekes - better known as Teveryah.

14)

(a)When Rebbi Avahu died, the pillars of Caesaria 'shed tears', when Rebbi Yosi died, blood flowed along the gutters of Tzipori. What happened to the stars and the trees respectively, when Rebbi Yakov and Rebbi Asi died?

(b)When Rebbi Chiya died, arches of fire were seen in the sky, and when Rebbi Menachem b'Rebbi Sima'i died, all the faces on the idols and on the coins melted. What was that?

(c)What happened ...

1. ... to the busts of the kings when Rebbi Tanchum bar Chiya died?

2. ... in Neherda'a when Rebbi Elyashiv died?

(d)When Rav Hamnuna died, arches of ice fell from the sky, and when Rabah and Rav Yosef died (not at the same time), the arches of the bridges that spanned the River Pras broke and the broken ends touched each other. The same thing happened to the arches of the bridge that spanned the River Diglas. At the death of which famous pair of Amora'im (who did not die at the same time either) did this occur?

(e)What did the palm-trees do when Rav Mesharshaya died?

14)

(a)When Rebbi Avahu died, the pillars of Caesaria 'shed tears', when Rebbi Yosi died, blood flowed along the drain-pipes of Tzipori. When Rebbi Yakov died - the stars shone in the day-time, and when Rebbi Asi died - all the trees were uprooted.

(b)When Rebbi Chiya died, arches of fire were seen in the sky, whereas following the death of Rebbi Menachem b'Rebbi Sima'i, all the faces on the idols and on the coins melted - because Rebbi Menachem b'Rebbi Yosi never looked at an image, even the face of the king on coins (for which reasons he was also known as 'B'nan shel Kedoshim').

(c)When Rebbi ...

1. ... Tanchum bar Chiya died - all the busts of the kings smashed ...

2. ... Rebbi Elyashiv died - seventy tunnels were dug by thieves in Neherda'a.

(d)When Rav Hamnuna died, arches of ice fell from the sky, and when Rabah and Rav Yosef died (not at the same time), the arches of the bridges that spanned the River Pras broke and the broken ends touched each other. The same thing happened to the arches of the bridges that spanned the River Diglas - at the death of Abaye and Rava (who did not die at the same time either).

(e)When Rav Mesharshaya died - all the palm-trees sprouted thorns.

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