KIDUSHIN 67 - Dedicated by a Talmid of Rabbi Kornfeld in Chicago. May Hashem bestow upon him and his wife Berachah in all their endeavors, and Yiddishe Nachas and joy from their dear children.

1)

WHOSE LINEAGE DO CHILDREN FOLLOW? (cont.)

(a)

(Gemara - Reish Lakish) Question: The rule of our Mishnah (in any permitted marriage, the children follow the father) is not always true!

1.

A convert may marry a Mamzeres, but the children are like the blemished one (the mother)!

2.

(Beraisa - Rebbi Yosi): If a convert married a Mamzeres, the children are Mamzerim.

(b)

Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah is not like Rebbi Yosi, rather like Rebbi Yehudah, who forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres.

1.

This is a forbidden marriage in which Kidushin is Tofes, so the child follows the blemished parent.

2.

Question: Why didn't the Mishnah list this among the cases of forbidden marriages?

3.

Answer: It says 'any (forbidden marriage)' to include this.

(c)

Answer #2: Really, the Mishnah is like Rebbi Yosi (who permits Mamzerim to converts). It says 'this is' to exclude cases not listed explicitly.

(d)

Question #1: If a Chalal married a Bas Yisrael, the marriage is permitted, and the children follow the father (and this was not listed)!

(e)

Answer: Our Tana holds like Rebbi Yehudah ben Dosta'i, that children of a Bas Yisrael and Chalal are Kesherim.

(f)

Question #2: If a Yisrael married a Chalalah, the marriage is permitted, and the children follow the father (and this was not listed)!

(g)

Answer: 'Any permitted marriage' includes this.

(h)

Question: Why wasn't it taught explicitly?

(i)

Answer: It could not be taught concisely with the other cases.

1.

It cannot say 'the daughter of a Kohen, Levi or Yisrael, or a Chalalah, who married a Kohen, Levi or Yisrael', for a Chalalah may not marry a Kohen!

(j)

Question: Why wasn't the following taught explicitly?

1.

(Rabah bar bar Chanah citing R. Yochanan): If a Mitzri Sheni (the son of a Mitzri convert) married a Mitzris Rishonah (she converted), the child is a Shlishi (and may marry a Yisrael. This shows that we follow the father.)

(k)

Answer: 'Any permitted marriage' includes this.

1.

According to Rav Dimi (who says that in Rabah bar bar Chanah's case, the child is a Sheni), 'this is' excludes this case.

(l)

Question: Ravin said in the name of R. Yochanan that when Nochrim of different nations marry, the children follow the father. If converts from different nations marry, the children receive the Isurim of both parents. (Since the marriage is permitted, we should follow the father!)

(m)

Answer: 'This is' excludes this case.

(n)

Question: Above (c), we said that the Mishnah is like Rebbi Yosi. This cannot be!

1.

If the Mishnah is like Rebbi Yehudah, the Reisha says 'any permitted marriage' to include a Yisrael who married a Chalalah, and Rabah bar bar Chanah's case;

i.

'This is' excludes Rav Dimi's and Ravin's cases;

67b----------------------------------------67b

ii.

The Seifa (second clause) says 'any forbidden marriage' to include a convert who married a Mamzeres;

2.

If the Mishnah is like Rebbi Yosi, granted, we can explain 'any permitted marriage' and 'this is' in the Reisha like above;

i.

However, what does 'any forbidden marriage' in the Seifa include?

3.

Counter-question: If the Mishnah is like Rebbi Yehudah, what does 'this is' in the Seifa exclude?

4.

Answer: You must say that it does not include anything. It was taught for parallel structure;

(o)

Answer: Also according to Rebbi Yosi, 'any forbidden marriage' is just for parallel structure.

2)

LINEAGE OF NOCHRIM AND CONVERTS

(a)

(Ravin, citing R. Yochanan): When Nochrim of different nations marry, the children follow the father. When converts from different nations marry, the children receive the Isurim of both parents.

(b)

Question: What does the first part mean?

(c)

Answer (Beraisa): "Also from the children of the residents (of Eretz Kena'an), you may buy (slaves)" - if a Nochri (not a Kena'ani) fathered a child through a Kena'anis, we may buy the child. (He is not a Kena'ani, about whom it says "do not leave any soul alive".)

1.

Suggestion: Perhaps this also applies to a Kena'ani who fathered a child through a Nochris of a different nation!

2.

Rejection: "Asher Holidu b'Artzechem" - we may buy from those born in our land (i.e. the mother is a Kena'anis), not from those fathered by residents of our land.

(d)

(Ravin): If converts from different nations marry, the children receive the Isurim of both parents.

(e)

Question: What is the case?

1.

Suggestion: A Mitzri married an Amonis.

2.

Rejection: She has no Isur. Only male Amomin are forbidden!

(f)

Answer: Rather, an Amoni married a Mitzris (Rishonah).

1.

If the child is a boy, he is an Amomi (he and his sons may not marry into Yisrael);

2.

If the child is a girl, she is a Mitzris (Sheniyah. She may not marry into Yisrael, but her children may.)

3)

WHAT MAKES MAMZERIM?

(a)

(Mishnah): If Reuven cannot Mekadesh Leah, but other men can be Mekadesh her, their children are Mamzerim.

(b)

Question: What is the source for this?

(c)

Answer #1 (R. Chiya bar Aba): "(One who is divorced) will leave his house and be (Mekudeshes) to another man" - (Kidushin can be) to others, but not to relatives.

(d)

Question (R. Aba): Perhaps this teaches only that she cannot be Mekudeshes to his son?

(e)

Answer: Another verse teaches this - "a man will not take (be Mekadesh) his father's wife"!

1.

Rather, "another" teaches about other relatives.

(f)

Question: Perhaps we need two verses for the son. One forbids marrying him l'Chatchilah, and one teaches that even b'Dieved, she is not Mekudeshes!

(g)

Answer: We already know that l'Chatchilah she may not marry him from Achos Ishto (the Isur of one's wife's sister)!

1.

The punishment for Bi'ah with Achos Ishto is Kares, and one may not be Mekadesh her. All the more so, one may not be Mekadesh relatives punishable by death!

(h)

Question: Perhaps two verses are needed for Achos Ishto. One forbids l'Chatchilah, and one teaches that even b'Dieved, she is not Mekudeshes!

(i)

Answer: That is correct. "Another" teaches that even b'Dieved, she is not Mekudeshes to her sister's husband.

(j)

Question: What is the source for other relatives?

(k)

Answer (and Answer #2 to Question (b)): We learn from Achos Ishto;

1.

The punishment for Bi'ah with Achos Ishto is Kares (for Mezid) or a Chatas (for Shogeg), and she cannot be Mekudeshes to him. Also every Ervah punishable by Kares and a Chatas cannot be Mekudeshes to him.

(l)

Question: This answer works for most Arayos, but not for one's brother's wife or another man's wife!

1.

We cannot learn to one's brother's wife, for she is permitted in a situation of Yibum, whereas Achos Ishto is never permitted for a Mitzvah!

2.

We cannot learn to another man's wife, for she can be permitted (through a Get) in the life of the one who caused her to be forbidden (her husband), unlike Achos Ishto!

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF