KIDUSHIN 67 - Dedicated by a Talmid of Rabbi Kornfeld in Chicago. May Hashem bestow upon him and his wife Berachah in all their endeavors, and Yiddishe Nachas and joy from their dear children.

1)

CONVERTS MAY MARRY PESULIM [converts: marriage]

(a)

Gemara

1.

Question (Reish Lakish): The Mishnah says that in a permitted marriage, the child follows the father. A convert may marry a Mamzeres, but the children are like the blemished one (the mother)!

i.

(Beraisa - R. Yosi): If a convert married a Mamzeres, the child is a Mamzer.

2.

Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah is like R. Yehudah, who forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres.

3.

Answer #2: Really, the Mishnah is like R. Yosi (who permits Mamzerim to converts). 'This is' excludes cases not listed explicitly.

4.

72b (Beraisa - R. Yosi): A convert may marry a Mamzeres;

5.

R. Yehudah forbids.

6.

The Halachah is, a convert is permitted to a Mamzeres, like R. Yosi.

7.

75a (Beraisa): Ten generations of converts may marry Mamzerim. After this, it is forbidden (lest people forget that he descends from converts);

8.

Some permit until people (actually) forget that he comes from converts.

(b)

Rishonim

1.

Rif and Rosh (4:5): The Halachah follows R. Yosi, who permits converts to marry Mamzerim.

2.

Rosh: This is only until 10 generations. Afterwards it is forbidden, for people forget that he is a convert and think that a Yisrael marries a Mamzeres. A Beraisa permits 10 generations of converts to may marry Mamzerim.

3.

Rambam (Hilchos Isurei Bi'ah 15:7): A Mamzer may marry a convert. A Mamzeres may marry a convert. In both cases, the children are Mamzerim. A Mamzer may not enter Kehal Hash-m; converts are not called Kehal Hash-m.

4.

Rambam (8): If two converts married, even though the child was conceived and born in Kedushah, he may marry a Mamzeres. The same applies to his great grandson, until it is not known that he is a convert. Afterwards, he is forbidden to a Mamzeres.

5.

Rambam (9): If a Yisrael or Yisraelis married a convert, the child is a Yisrael in every respect, and is forbidden to a Mamzeres.

i.

Magid Mishneh: A convert's child from a Yisraelis is no worse than a Nochri's child from a Yisraelis. The child is a full Yisrael every respect, and is forbidden to a Mamzeres. If a Yisrael marries a convert, the marriage is permitted, so the child follows his father, and is forbidden to a Mamzeres.

ii.

Rebuttal (Ran DH Ger): A Nochri's child from a Yisraelis is a full Yisrael because his lineage cannot follow his father. "L'Mishpechosam l'Veis Avosam" applies to Yisrael. When the father is a Yisrael (convert), the marriage is permitted, so the child should follow his father's lineage, and be permitted to a Mamzeres! This requires investigation.

iii.

Defense #1 (Taz EH 4:13): The child's father was initially a Nochri (Tom). Had Tom not converted, his son (Levi) from a Yisraelis would be a full Yisrael, and forbidden to a Mamzeres. If you want to say that the conversion uprooted Levi's Nochri ancestry, he is a full Yisrael, and is still forbidden to a Mamzeres. Granted, Tom may marry a Mamzeres, for he did not receive this Kedushah (to be forbidden). Regarding this Heter, it is as if he is still a Nochri. If you want to apply to Levi l'Mishpechosam l'Veis Avosam, you must consider Tom to be a full Yisrael!

iv.

Answer #2 (Beis Shmuel EH 4:37): Perhaps the rule (that in a permitted marriage, we follow the father) applies only to Yisrael, but not to converts. We hold that a convert may marry a Mamzeres, yet the child is like his mother!

(c)

Poskim

1.

Shulchan Aruch (EH 4:22): A convert or freed slave may marry a Mamzeres. A Mamzer may marry a convert or freed slave. This is even if conception and birth were both in Kedushah, e.g. two converts married.

i.

Beis Shmuel (35): It seems that there is no Isur of Mamzeres, but in any case one may not increase Mamzerim in Yisrael (the children will be Mamzerim).

ii.

Beis Meir: This is like Tosfos Gitin 41a (DH Lisa), who says that a half-slave may have Bi'ah with a Mamzeres, but we force his master to free him, for we do not want to increase Mamzerim. The Beis Shmuel said 'it seems', for the Ran (30a DH Gemara) forbids a slave to had Bi'ah with a Mamzeres. If so, there is no proof that Chachamim oppose increasing Mamzerim.

2.

Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): This is only until 10 generations. After, it is forbidden, lest people forget that he is a convert, and think that a Yisrael marries a Mamzeres. The Rambam permits him to a Mamzeres, and also his great grandson, until it is not known that he is a convert. Afterwards, he is forbidden to a Mamzeres.

3.

Shulchan Aruch (23): If a Yisrael or Yisraelis married a convert, the child is a Yisrael in every respect, and is forbidden to a Mamzeres.

i.

Chelkas Mechokek (23): This is like the Rambam. The Ran and Tosfos (74b DH v'Harei) permit a male convert's son to a Mamzeres, for the son follows his father. The Gemara (67a) supports the Rambam. We did not ask why the Mishnah omitted a convert married to a Bas Yisrael (it is permitted and the child follows the father).

ii.

Note: According to the Rambam, why didn't the Gemara ask that this case contradicts the Klal of the Reisha!

iii.

Rejection #1 (Sha'ar ha'Melech Isurei Bi'ah 15:9): The Mishnah omitted this, for in all other cases the child is totally like the father, but our Tana permits the daughter (of a convert and Bas Yisrael) to Kehunah.

iv.

Rejection #2 (Avnei Milu'im 23 DH v'Nicha): The Ran holds that the Tana of our Mishnah is R. Eliezer ben Yakov, who says that we follow the mother's lineage. The Halachah does not follow him.

v.

Gra (52): We find that the children are Kosher to Kehunah (77a). When the mother is a Yisraelis, this is called "mi'Kerev Achecha" (the child can be a king), and all the more so when a Yisrael marries a convert.

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