DO WE NEED BOTH SHITUF AND ERUV CHATZEROS? (cont.)
Question (against the latter opinion - Beraisa - Chachamim): We make an Eruv or a Shituf.
Suggestion: We make Eruv Chatzeros with bread, or Shituf Mavo'os with wine [and it permits the Chatzeros]!
Answer (Rav Gidal): It means that we make Eruv Chatzeros with bread, and this permits also the Mavoy; or, we make Shituf Mavo'os with bread, and this permits also the Chatzeros.
(Rav Yehudah): The Halachah follows R. Meir;
(Rav Huna): The custom follows R. Meir;
(R. Yochanan): People follow R. Meir [and we do not protest. Even though R. Meir is stringent, there are cases when it leads to a leniency. Also, according to Chachamim, the Berachah on the Eruv is in vain.]
GROUPS THAT LODGED IN ONE HALL
(Mishnah): If five groups spent Shabbos in a hall (paltry Mechitzos separate them; each has its own opening from the hall to the Chatzer):
Beis Shamai say that [each group is considered a separate Reshus, so they need an Eruv to transfer among each other.] Each must be Me'arev (give towards the Eruv in the Chatzer);
Beis Hillel say that [they are considered one Reshus, so they may transfer among themselves without an Eruv.] It suffices for one of them to be Me'arev [in the Chatzer].
Beis Hillel agree that if they are in rooms or attics that each must be Me'arev.
Version #1 (Gemara - Rav Nachman): They argue about when Mesifos (low flimsy walls, or walls with many windows) divide them. If walls 10 Tefachim tall divide them, all agree that each must be Me'arev;
Version #2 (Rav Nachman): They argue even when Mesifos divide them.
(R. Chiya or R. Shimon bar Rebbi): They argue about when walls up to the ceiling divide them. If the walls do not reach the ceiling, all agree that it suffices for one of them to be Me'arev;
(The other of R. Chiya and R. Shimon bar Rebbi): They argue about walls that do not reach the ceiling. If they reach the ceiling, all agree that each must be Me'arev.
Question (Beraisa - R. Yehudah ha'Savar): Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel agree that if the walls reach the ceiling, each must be Me'arev;
They argue about walls that do not reach the ceiling. Beis Shamai requires each to be Me'arev, and Beis Hillel require only one;
This supports the latter opinion of R. Chiya or R. Shimon and refutes the former. It also refutes Version #1 of Rav Nachman;
Suggestion: This refutes also Version #2 of Rav Nachman! (The Beraisa says that they argue about [proper] walls that do not reach the ceiling. This implies that all agree that Mesifos do not require each to be Me'arev.)
Answer (for Version #2 of Rav Nachman): No, they argue about [proper] walls [that do not reach the ceiling] and also about Mesifos;
The Tana taught the argument about walls to teach the extremity of Beis Hillel. (Even regarding walls, sometimes one Eruv suffices.)
Question: Why didn't he teach the argument about Mesifos to teach the extremity of Beis Shamai?
Answer: The Tana prefers to teach the extremity of the lenient opinion.
(Rav Nachman): The Halachah follows R. Yehudah ha'Savar.
Support (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - Mishnah): Beis Hillel agree that if they are in rooms or attics, each must be Me'arev.
Question: What kind of rooms or attics are these?
Suggestion: They are proper rooms or attics. (They were separate from the beginning.)
Rejection: If so, obviously each must be Me'arev!
Answer: They are like rooms or attics, i.e. [temporary] walls that reach the ceiling.
Version #1 (Beraisa): The argument [in the Mishnah] is when the groups in the hall bring their Eruv elsewhere (to a different house in the Chatzer. Beis Hillel say that one group is Me'arev on behalf of all of them, and Beis Shamai require each to be Me'arev);
If the rest of the Chatzer brought their Eruv to the hall, all agree that one Eruv suffices. (Tosfos R. Peretz - the groups are like one house hosting the Eruv, so they need not be Me'arev.)
Question: Who is the Tana of the following Beraisa?
(Beraisa): If five members of a Chatzer were Me'arev, one of them can take the Eruv elsewhere [to join with another Chatzer].
Answer: It is like Beis Hillel.
Version #2 (Beraisa): The argument is when the rest of the Chatzer brought their Eruv to the hall. If the groups brought their Eruv elsewhere, all agree that each must be Me'arev.
Question: Who is the Tana of the following Beraisa?
(Beraisa): If five members of a Chatzer were Me'arev, one of them can take the Eruv elsewhere.
Answer: It is not like either Tana.
WHAT DETERMINES RESIDENCE?
(Mishnah): If brothers eat at their father's table and sleep in their own houses, each of them must be Me'arev. Therefore, if one of them forgot to be Me'arev, he must be Mevatel his Reshus [to permit the others];
This is when they put their Eruv in another house [in the Chatzer]. If the rest of the Chatzer brought their Eruv to the father's house, or if no one else lives in the Chatzer, they need not be Me'arev.
(Gemara) Inference: The place of sleeping determines [residence. This refutes Rav (73a)]!
Rejection (Rav Yehudah): The case is, they receive Pras (Tosfos 79B v'Al - food; Rashi - money for food) from their father [but eat in their own houses].
(Beraisa): A Beis Sha'ar (gatehouse), Achsadra (a room open on one side) or balcony open to another's Chatzer does not forbid;
The following forbid - a storehouse for straw, wood or other things, or a cattle pen;
R. Yehudah says, only a place of Dirah forbids;
R. Yehudah says, a case occurred in which Ben Nafcha had (Me'iri - houses in) five Chatzeros in Usha. Chachamim said that only Beis Dirah forbids.
Objection: This cannot be! (Tosfos ha'Rosh - he connotes that Beis Dirah forbids even if no one dwells in it. Me'iri - a Beis Sha'ar does not forbid, even if one lives there!)
Correction: Rather, they said that only Mekom Dirah forbids. (Tosfos ha'Rosh -someone actually dwells there, Me'iri it is a place appropriate for Dirah.)
Question: What is the place of Dirah?
Answer #1 (Rav): It is where he eats.