1)

A PARTIALLY CULTIVATED KARFEF (cont.)

(a)

Correction - Inference: (The Beraisa forbids a Karfef more than Beis Sa'atayim if the majority was seeded.) If the minority was seeded, it is permitted.

(b)

Version #1 (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): This is only if [the seeded area] is less than Beis Sa'atayim. If it is Beis Sa'atayim, it is forbidden. (It is like a Karfef unto itself. Normally, a Karfef of this size is permitted. Here it is forbidden because nothing separates it from the unseeded part, which is like a Chatzer.)

(c)

This is like Chachamim [of R. Shimon, who forbid transferring between a Karfef and a Chatzer. Therefore, these places forbid each other.]

(d)

Version #2 - R. Yirmeyah mi'Difti - (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): This is only if [the seeded area] is at most Beis Sa'atayim. If it is more, it is forbidden [like any Karfef above Beis Sa'atayim].

(e)

This is like R. Shimon [but Chachamim forbid even Beis Sa'atayim, like we explained above].

(f)

(Beraisa): If the majority was planted [with trees], it is like a Chatzer, and one may carry in it.

(g)

(Avimi): This is only if it is planted in rows. (It is convenient to sit there.)

(h)

(Rav Nachman): This is even if it is not planted in rows.

(i)

Mar Yehudah visited Rav Huna bar Yehudah; he saw people carrying [in a Karfef above Beis Sa'atayim that was mostly planted, but not in rows].

1.

Mar Yehudah: Don't you hold like Avimi?

2.

Rav Huna bar Yehudah: I hold like Rav Nachman.

2)

PERMITTING SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT HUKAF L'DIRAH

(a)

(Rav Nachman): If a Karfef more than Beis Sa'atayim was not Hukaf l'Dirah, one can breach a wall more than 10 Amos, and fence it to reduce the breach to 10, and then it is permitted.

(b)

Question: If one breached one Amah and fenced it, breached another Amah and fenced it (in the end, more than 10 Amos were breached), what is the law?

(c)

Answer (Rav Nachman): This is like the case of the broken sandal!

1.

(Mishnah): If a [wooden] Kli of a Ba'al ha'Bayis (i.e. not a craftsman) has a hole k'Rimon (the size of a pomegranate), it is Tahor.

2.

Question (Chizkiyah): If a Kli got a hole the size of k'Zayis, and it was sealed, and got another hole k'Zayis, and it was sealed, until the area of the holes in total was k'Rimon, what is the law?

3.

Answer (R. Yochanan): You taught us regarding a sandal. We can learn from there!

i.

(Mishnah): If a flap of a sandal [that is Tamei Medras, i.e. an Av ha'Tum'ah] snapped and was fixed, the sandal is still Tamei Medras;

ii.

If the other flap snapped and was fixed, it is Tahor from Medras, but it is Tamei like Maga (something that touched a) Medras.

iii.

Question: After the first flap snapped it is [still] Tamei Medras due to the other flap. Also after the second one snaps, it should be Tamei Medras due to the first, which was fixed!

iv.

Answer (Chizkiyah): Panim Chodoshos have come. (Since enough has broken to be Mevatel it from being a sandal [had nothing been fixed], it is as if what remains is not the same sandal that received Tum'as Medras.)

4.

(R. Yochanan): Likewise regarding a Kli, Panim Chodoshos have come! (It is as if there was a hole k'Rimon, so it is Tahor. Rav Nachman's answer is that also regarding the Karfef, Panim Chodoshos have come. It is as if more than 10 Amos were breached at once. It is now Hukaf l'Dirah!)

5.

Version #1 - Chizkiyah: R. Yochanan is [an angel, and] not a human!

6.

Version #2 - Chizkiyah: R. Yochanan is [the paradigm of greatness possible in] a human!

(d)

(Rav Kahana): In a Rechavah (this is like a Chatzer, but houses do not open to it and it is) in back of houses, one may carry only within four Amos.

(e)

(Rav Nachman): If one made an opening to it [from his house], he may carry in the entire Rechavah.

(f)

This is only if he made an opening and later surrounded [the Rechavah by a wall]. If he surrounded and later made an opening, it is forbidden.

(g)

Objection: If he opened and later surrounded, obviously it is permitted!

(h)

Answer: The case is, there is a granary between his house and the wall;

1.

One might have thought that he opened and surrounded for the sake of the granary. He teaches that this is not so. (Rather, it was for the Rechavah.)

(i)

(Rabanan): If a Karfef more than Beis Sa'atayim was Hukaf l'Dirah and became full of water, it is as if it was seeded (if the majority was seeded, it is like a garden), and it is forbidden.

(j)

Question (Rav Aba): Rava taught that it is as if it was planted, and it is permitted!

24b----------------------------------------24b

(k)

Answer (Ameimar): That is only if it is usable.

(l)

(Rav Ashi): Even if it is usable, this is only if the water is not [10 Tefachim] deep over an area of more than Beis Sa'atayim. If it is, it is forbidden [for it is abnormal to make such a big trench of water].

(m)

This is wrong. It is like a giant pile of fruits. (It is not Mevatel Shem Dirah.)

3)

THE RECHAVAH OF FUM NAHARA

(a)

There was a Rechavah in Fum Nahara. One end opened to [a Mavoy of] the city, and the other end opened to an [inhabited] path through vineyards. The path ended at the riverbank [which was considered a wall, for it was 10 Tefachim deep. See Perush Chai diagram, Perek 2 number 92, in the English Charts section.]

(b)

Question (Abaye): How can we permit it? (It was more than Beis Sa'atayim, and already Hukaf but not l'Dirah. The wall was very solid, so it was difficult to breach and fix it.)

1.

We cannot make a wall on top of the bank [to join the path to the Rechavah] l'Shem Dirah, for a wall on top of a wall does not help.

(c)

Suggestion: We can make Tzuras ha'Pesach at the opening of the path [to the river]!

(d)

Rejection: Camels pass through [to drink]. They would knock it down. (It was a narrow opening.)

(e)

Answer #1 (Abaye): We make a Lechi at the opening of the path [to the Rechavah]. Since it permits the path, it permits also the Rechavah!

(f)

Objection (Rava): People will think that a Lechi permits a regular path in a vineyard [which is open at both ends]!

(g)

Answer #2 (Rava): We make a Lechi at the opening [of the Rechavah] to the Mavoy. Since it permits the Mavoy, it permits also the Rechavah;

(h)

This permits to carry in the Mavoy itself, and in the Rechavah itself;

(i)

(Rav Acha or Ravina): One may not transfer between the Mavoy and the Rechavah;

(j)

(The other of Rav Acha and Ravina): It is permitted.

1.

The latter opinion permits because the Rechavah lacks residents [to forbid the Mavoy];

2.

The former opinion forbids because sometimes it has residents, and people might inadvertently carry [like they are used to].

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF