More Discussions for this daf
1. Rashi cites Rav Yehudah; Shen and Regel together 2. Rav Oshiyah 3. Nezek By A Moser
4. Moser not on Rebbi Chiya's list of Avos 5. Tosafos answer to Rashi
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA KAMA 5

Jeno Gal asks:

Hello again.

The Gemora discusses whether there should be a Chiyuv Mazik by a Mosar, since his damage is only through Dibur.

But why isn't every Mosar Patur from payment due to Kam Leih B'D'Rabah Minei ?

Isn't a Mosar Chayav Misa, as we see that Rav Kahana killed a Mosar and had to run away to Eretz Yisrael.

(the Mosar is a Rodef, as the Nirdaf could end up being killed by the authorities when they demand more money from him)

Although the Mosar's Chiyuv Misa is not a verdict of Beis Din, it should not make a difference, ... as we see by Ba B'Machteres where it is also not a verdict of Beis Din and Kam Leih applies.

Thank You again, ... it is great to be able to send questions to you (and getting answers is even better)

Nosson Tzvi

The Kollel replies:

Nosson Tzvi, thank you for the opportunity to attempt to answer your excellent questions!

1) Baruch she'Kivanta! Your question is asked by the Pnei Yehoshua to Bava Kama 117a.

2) Chidushei Rav Meir Simchah (by the Meshech Chochmah), to Bava Kama 117a, answers that Moser is different from other cases of Kam Lei bed'Rabah Minei. This is because the chief liability of the Moser is before he hands over someone else's money. The thing that renders him liable is the fact that he wants to hand over the money, which will in turn lead to danger to life of the person whose money was handed over. It follows that since the reason he is liable is because of the money he is damaging, it does not make sense to say that because he wanted to damage money, Kam Lei should make him exempt from paying money. This is not similar to other cases of Kam Lei, for instance, "Rodef" in Bava Kama 117b. Rodef is exempt from damage he did to property while chasing his murder victim. The reason why Rodef is liable for the death penalty is not because of monetary damage he is doing, but because of the attempted murder. Here, Kam Lei can exempt one from the lighter financial punishment. Moser is different, because the offender was trying to cause monetary loss to his victim, and thus Kam Lei cannot exempt him from paying money.

3) The Teshuvos Achi'ezer (1:18:2, DH uv'Shitas) answers that Kam Lei does not apply to Moser because this is murder caused through Grama; he endangers life only indirectly. Since it is through Grama, he could not be sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin. Kam Lei applies only to a capital penalty that can be administered by Beis Din.

Kol Tov,

Dovid Bloom