More Discussions for this daf
1. "Shanim Mekuta'os" 2. Achasverosh's Empire and Ages 3. questions about reish lakish's introduction...
4. Evil Merodach 5. Matisyahu 6. Directive for Dealing with Amalek
7. לא סליק מלכותיה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MEGILAH 11

Bobbie Horowitz asked:

(a) When did Achasverosh lose half the empire he started with? Was that before the Purim events? Did he inherit the vast empire?

(b) How old were Mordecai, Esther, Achasverosh, Vashti and Haman when the Purim story takes place?

Thank you for any information.

Bobbie Horowitz, New York, NY USA

The Kollel replies:

Dear Bobbie,

Thanks for your questions. You mention that Achashverosh lost half of the empire. Can you please quote a source for this?

Regarding the ages: According to the Midrash, Esther was seventy five years old when taken to the palace of Achashverosh. I do not recall any sources regarding the ages of the other figures you mentioned. It is however important to point out that Mordechai was from the exile of Yechonyah, thus he must have been at least in his seventies.

All the best.

Y. Landy

bobbie horowitz responded:

Dear Rabbi,

(a) In one of the many, many Pieces I've read about The Story of Esther an the times before and after it, I believe I read that Achashveros's father had well over 200 provinces under his control. It's very possible that this information was speculation.

(b) Also - how long was a year in those days? I would think Esther would have been in our terms more like 15 years old or, at most 18 years old - if she was of the age to be presented for marriage.

Thank you so much.

Bobbie Horowitz

The Kollel replies:

(a) As to the losing half the empire:

1. Rav Hisda in Megilah 11a says the empire gradually GREW (from 7 to 20 to 127 provinces); no mention of any reduction.

2. In response to the debate over the implication of the phrase "me'Hodu v'Ad Kush" -- whether it refers to the vastness of the empire (including the entire world) or simply Achashverosh's power over the empire (not that he ruled the entire world though) -- the gemara quotes a Beraisa (Tanu Rabanan) that Achashverosh was one of 3 kings who ruled the entire world.

3. Targum Rishon and Sheni say Achashverosh ruled the world but his empire was reduced to only 127 provinces since he listened to Vashti to stop the building of the Beis ha'Mikdash (see Ezra 4:6).

4. Ester Rabah 1,5 says the world consists of 252 provinces but Achashverosh ruled only over half of them (i.e. 126 and one was added to him in the merit of Sarah) either because he had divided God's rule or because he reduced by half the height of the Beis ha'Mikdash (from 120 to 60 Amos).

5. Midrash Panim Acherim (ed Buber, p. 56) quotes Rav Levi to say the world has had 4 kings (including Achashverosh) who have ruled the world (cf. no. 2 above) but that Achashverosh's empire was reduced to 127 provinces (but no reason is provided).

6. Pirkei de'Rabi Eli'ezer 11 -- and a more reliable source for the original wording in Pirkei de'Rabi Eli'ezer is Sefer ha'Ma'asiyos (ed Gaster, p. 2) -- says Achashverosh was one of 10 (sic) kings who ruled the entire world -- which consists of 232 provinces (cf. 252 in Ester Rabah; the number 232 is based on I Kings 20:15) -- but for whatever reason Achashverosh's empire was reduced in half to 116 but 11 more were added to his empire in the merit of Ester (a descendant of Sarah who lived 127 years). See also Midrash ha'Gadol to Bereishis 10:8 (ed Margoliyot, p. 194) in which Achashverosh is not counted among the ten. See also Midrash Aseres ha'Melachim in Eisenstein, Otzar ha'Midrashim.

Now, among the various versions of this Midrash, there are some that count Cyrus as one of the kings that did rule the entire world (despite the Gemara's version that he doesn't qualify). But this cannot imply that Achashverosh inherited the empire since Cyrus was not his father. Also, the implication of the versions is that none of those kings inherited the empire but that they all fought and won it with God's help.

The implication of the Midrash is that the reduction of Achashverosh's empire was prior to the events of the Megilah.

Historically speaking, Herodotus tells us (3.89) that Darius -- father of Xerxes -- was the one who first divided the empire into 20 satrapies. There is no enumeration of provinces or a number of provinces, certainly not 127, let alone 252, but that by itself is no reason to doubt the empire did in fact contain 127 units. Now, whether the known world at that time had more than 127 units, or whether the number of provinces or their divisions was a political or geographical truth prior to Darius or Xerxes, is hard to tell. But one suspects the 127 was also a truth created by Darius in his division of the empire.

Hope this was helpful

Yisrael

The Kollel adds:

(b) What you suggest is the most logical assumption. However, there is one Midrash (Targum to Esther 2:7) that maintains she was 75, yet still as attractive as a young woman.

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld