The custom of ship-drivers is to pay the rental when they move the ship, and to pay the loss when it breaks.

Question: Does the law depend in the custom? (If he will pay when it breaks, it is as if he buys it, but he pays rental now because he will pay only later!)

Answer: The Beraisa justifies the custom. (Since he is liable only for death (regarding a ship, breakage, total loss but not depreciation), he may also pay rent.

(Rav Anan citing Shmuel): We may lend orphans' money on Ribis.

Rav Nachman: We may not cause them to transgress. They will be punished for this!

What was the case (from which you inferred this)?

Rav Anan: Shmuel had a cauldron of Mar Ukva's orphans. He rented it to others and also charged them if it decreased in weight.

To pay both is Ribis!

Rejection (Rav Nachman): One may pay both even to adults. They pay for the loss of weight, and also rental because the remaining metal depreciates through usage.

(Rabah bar Shila): One may invest orphans' money on condition that they can profit but cannot lose. (This is Avak Ribis, which is normally forbidden mid'Rabanan. Regarding orphans, Chachamim permit it.)

(Beraisa): If one invests money on condition that he can profit but cannot lose, he is evil. If he can lose but cannot profit, he is a Chasid. If he can profit or lose, or can neither profit nor lose, this like most people do.

Rabah (to Rav Yosef): What do we do with orphans' money?

Rav Yosef: We leave it in Beis Din and give them each Zuz when they need it.

Rabah: The principal will dissipate!

Rav Yosef: What do you suggest?

Rabah: We find a man who owns pieces of gold. We buy pieces of gold with their money, and invest it with him, on condition that they can gain but cannot lose.

We cannot use a man who owns only identifiable things. Perhaps they are a deposit. The owner will give a Siman and retrieve his deposit!

Objection (Rav Ashi): If we do not find such a man, will we allow the orphans to consume the principal?!

(Rav Ashi): Rather, we find a man whose property is uncontested. He must be trustworthy, knowledgeable of Torah law and acquiescent to Beis Din. We invest the money with him in Beis Din, on condition that they can gain but cannot lose.

(Mishnah): We may not accept Tzon Barzel from a Yisrael; since it is Ribis;

We may accept from a Nochri.

We may borrow from or lend to a Nochri or Ger Toshav (a Nochri who accepted to guard his seven Mitzvos) on Ribis;

We may lend a Nochri's money according to his will, but not according to the Yisrael's.

(Gemara) Inference: (Since this is called Ribis,) we may infer that Tzon Barzel belongs to the receiver (he suffers any losses (Rashi - and the profits are shared; Tosfos - the investor is guaranteed a fixed revenue)).

Contradiction (Mishnah): If one accepts Tzon Barzel from a Nochri, the offspring are exempt from Bechorah (the firstborn has no Kedushah and need not be redeemed. This proves that it belongs to the Nochri.)

Answer #1 (Abaye): If the investor bears any decrease in value of the goods or any Ones, it is considered his. If not, it is the receiver's.

Objection #1 (Rava): If the investor bears any decrease in value or Ones, that is not Tzon Barzel!

Objection #2 (Rava): The Reisha permits accepting Tzon Barzel from a Nochri. It should distinguish within the case of Yisrael, and permit if the investor bears any decrease in value or Ones!

Answer #2 (Rava): Rather, in both cases the investor does not bear decrease in value or Ones;

Bechorah does not apply because if the Yisrael does not return the estimated value, the Nochri will take the animal, and if he cannot, he will take the offspring;

Whenever a Nochri has rights in an animal, Bechorah does not apply.

Question: "One who gets rich through Ribis, l'Chonen Dalim Yikbetzenu (the one who is gracious to the poor will gather it)" - who is this?

Answer (Rav): Ii people like Shevor Malka (the Persian king, who would take from Yisrael and give to the Nochrim, who are poor in Mitzvos).

Version #1 (Rav Nachman): The verse teaches that even one who lends to a Nochri on Ribis will lose his money.

Question (Rava) Suggestion: We read "la'Nochri Sashuch (you will take Ribis from him)"!

Answer: No, we read "Sashich" (you will pay Ribis to him).

Question: Is that a Mitzvah?!

Answer: No. It excludes a Yisrael, to whom you may not pay Ribis.

Question: "Ul'Achicha Lo Sashich" forbids that!

Answer: "La'Nochri Sashich" adds an Isur derived from a Mitzvas Aseh.

Question (Mishnah): We may borrow from or lend to a Nochri or Ger Toshav on Ribis.

Answer #1 (R. Chiya brei d'Rav Huna): The Mishnah permits one to take Ribis from a Nochri only if he needs it to survive.