AVODAH ZARAH 59 - dedicated by Mrs. G. Kornfeld in honor of the marriage of Eli and Nechama Turkel. May they have many happy and healthy years together with Mazel, Berachah and Hatzlachah until 120, and much Nachas from all of their children

1)

(a)We just cited the ruling of Rebbi Yochanan in the name of Rebbi Shimon ben Yehotzadak, that public expanses of water cannot become Asur. What problem do we have with the implication that water belonging to a private person can?

(b)How do we resolve the problem?

(c)Which unresolved She'eilah from the previous Perek (regarding the opinions of B'nei Rebbi Chiya and Rebbi Yochanan) do we now try to resolve from here?

(d)What is the proof?

(e)How do we refute this proof, bearing in mind that their Machlokes involved stones that came loose by themselves,?

1)

(a)We just cited the ruling of Rebbi Yochanan Mishum Rebbi Shimon ben Yehotzadak, that public expanses of water cannot become Asur. The problem with the implication that water belonging to a private person can is that - water is considered 'Mechubar le'Karka', and we have learned that 'Mechubar le'Karka' cannot become Asur ("Eloheihem al he'Harim ... ").

(b)We resolve the problem - by suggesting that a wave momentarily detached itself from the stream, and that is what the Nochri worshipped.

(c)We now try to resolve from here the unresolved She'eilah from the previous Perek, which of the two disputants (B'nei Rebbi Chiya or Rebbi Yochanan) holds that stones that break away from a mountain that a Nochri worshipped are forbidden ...

(d)... since it now seems that Rebbi Yochanan is the one who forbids it.

(e)Bearing in mind that their Machlokes involved stones that came loose by themselves, we refute this proof - by changing the case to where the Nochri detached the water with his hand (in which case they both agree that the mountain is forbidden.

2)

(a)When Rebbi Chiya bar Aba (Rebbi Yochanan's Talmid) arrived in Gavla, what did he say when he saw ...

1. ... Jewish women who were pregnant from potential Geirim who had performed Milah but not Tevilah?

2. ... Yisre'elim drinking wine which Nochrim had diluted?

(b)He also said nothing when he saw Yisre'elim eating Turmus beans that had been cooked by Nochrim. What are Turmus beans?

(c)What did Rebbi Yochanan instruct Rebbi Chiya bar Aba to go and tell the residents of Gavla regarding each of the three cases?

(d)We already cited Rebbi Yochanan's reason for his second ruling ('Lech Lech Amrin li'Nezira ... '). But what are the dual bases of his first ruling (regarding children born from a Ger who performed Milah but not Tevilah)?

(e)How will we reconcile this ruling with the Halachah that only a child from a relationship involving incest (which carries with it a Chiyuv Kareis) is a Mamzer?

2)

(a)When Rebbi Chiya bar Aba (Rebbi Yochanan's Talmid) arrived in Gavla, he said nothing when he saw ...

1. ... Jewish women who were pregnant from potential Geirim who had performed Milah but not Tevilah.

2. ... Yisre'elim drinking wine which Nochrim had diluted.

(b)He also said nothing when he saw Yisre'elim eating Turmus beans - (that need to be cooked seven times before they become sweet and fit to eat) that had been cooked by Nochrim.

(c)Rebbi Yochanan instructed Rebbi Chiya bar Aba to go and tell the residents of Gavla - that their children were Mamzerim, their wine was Yayin Nesech and their Turmus beans were forbidden because of Bishul Akum.

(d)We already cited Rebbi Yochanan's reason for his second ruling ('Lech Lech Amrin li'Nezira ... '). The bases of his first ruling are - a. that a Nochri only becomes a Ger after Milah and Tevilah, and b. that a child born to a bas-Yisrael from an Eved or a Nochri is a Mamzer.

(e)This is the opinion of Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Rebbi Yochanan however. According to the Halachah, only a child who is born from a relationship involving incest (which carries with it a Chiyuv Kareis) is a Mamzer.

3)

(a)What did Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak Amar Rav say in the second Perek about any food that can be eaten raw?

(b)In that case, seeing as Turmus beans cannot be eaten raw, why did Rebbi Yochanan need to come on to the reason of 'Einan B'nei Torah' to forbid the Turmus beans in Gavla? Why were they not forbidden anyway?

3)

(a)Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak Amar Rav ruled in the second Perek that any food that can be eaten raw - is not subject to Bishul Akum.

(b)In spite of the fact that Turmus beans cannot be eaten raw, Rebbi Yochanan needed to come on to the reason of 'Einan B'nei Torah' to forbid the Turmus beans in Gavla - because according to him, what Rav Yitzchak Amar Rav said was that any food that is not served at the king's table is not subject to Bishul Akum (and Turmus beans belong to that category).

4)

(a)What did Rav Kahana reply when they asked him whether a Nochri is permitted to carry grapes to the wine-press?

(b)What does the Beraisa rule in a case where a Nochri carried baskets, or small barrels, of grapes from which juice was oozing, to the wine-press?

(c)What did Rav Kahana reply, when Rav Yeimar queried him from this Beraisa?

4)

(a)When they asked Rav Kahana whether a Nochri is permitted to carry grapes to the wine-press - he replied in the negative, based on the principle of 'Lech Lech Amrin li'Nezira ... '.

(b)The Beraisa rules that in a case where a Nochri carried baskets or small barrels, of grapes from which juice was oozing, to the wine-press - the grapes and the wine that is subsequently made are permitted.

(c)When Rav Yeimar queried Rav Kahana from this Beraisa - the latter pointed out that the Beraisa speaks in a case of 'Bedi'eved', whereas he was speaking 'Lechatchilah'.

59b----------------------------------------59b

5)

(a)What did a certain Nochri do when he saw an Esrog fall into a barrel of wine?

(b)Which dual instructions did Rav Ashi issue to those who were present?

5)

(a)When a certain Nochri saw an Esrog fall into a barrel of wine - he ran to the barrel and grabbed the Esrog, to prevent it from sinking to the bottom of the barrel.

(b)Rav Ashi instructed those who were present - a. to hold the Nochri's hand tight (so that he should not stir the water), and b. to tip the barrel, allowing the wine to pour into another vessel until the level of the wine dropped to below the Nochri's hand (because it would be nigh-on impossible to control his hand [even whilst holding it] as he withdrew it from the wine, to prevent it from stirring the wine).

6)

(a)What concession did Rav Ashi make to someone whose barrel of wine a Nochri was Menasech, bearing in mind that he is not permitted to sell it to any other Nochri?

(b)What is the reason for this concession?

(c)Rav Ashi took his cue from a Beraisa, where The Tana Kama forbids benefiting from wine that a Nochri was Menasech not in the presence of the Avodah-Zarah. What two reasons do Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava and Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira give for permitting it?

(d)How will we then explain Rav Ashi's ruling even though the Halachah is like the Tana Kama?

6)

(a)Rav Ashi permitted someone - to sell the barrel of wine to the Nochri who was Menasech it (in spite of the fact that he would not have been permitted to sell it to any other Nochri) ...

(b)... because he was merely making him pay for the good wine that he rendered Nesech.

(c)Rav Ashi took his cue from a Beraisa, where The Tana Kama forbids benefiting from wine that a Nochri was Menasech not in the presence of the Avodah-Zarah; whereas Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava and Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira permit it - a . because real Nisuch only applies in the presence of the Avodas-Kochavim, and b. because the Nochri has no right to render somebody else's wine Asur.

(d)Even though the Halachah is like the Tana Kama - Rav Ashi uses the S'vara of Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava and Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira to permit selling the wine to the Nochri who made it Nesech in the current case.

7)

(a)In a case where the tap of a barrel of wine breaks off, and a Nochri places his hand over the hole to prevent the wine from flowing out, Rav Papa permits all the wine that is not actually next to the hole. Why is that?

(b)Why did he only forbid drinking the wine, and not deriving benefit from it?

(c)What does he say in the second Lashon, where he is not so lenient?

(d)Based on a Mishnah in T'vul-Yom that we are about to cite (which discusses this ruling), why is the Halachah not like Rav Papa?

7)

(a)In a case where the tap of a barrel of wine breaks off, and a Nochri places his hand over the hole to prevent the wine from flowing out, Rav Papa permits all the wine that is not actually next to the hole - because he does not consider the rest of the wine joined to the wine next to the tap (presumably because, if not for the Nochri's hand, the latter would have immediately flowed out of the tap, whereas the former would have [momentarily] remained inside the barrel).

(b)He only forbade drinking the wine, and not deriving benefit from it - because it speaks where the hole is too narrow for the Nochri to have stirred the wine in the barrel.

(c)In the second Lashon - he forbids all the wine that is above the hole, seeing as it would all have flowed through the hole had the Nochri not kept his hand there.

(d)Based on a Mishnah in T'vul-Yom that we are about to cite, the Halachah is not like Rav Papa - since it follows the opinion of Rebbi Yehudah there (which is an individual opinion), and not that of the Chachamim.

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