WHEN ARE WE CONCERNED FOR NOCHRIM TOUCHING?
(Rav Asi): There are three laws of wine;
Wine that was offered to idolatry - one may not benefit from it, and a k'Zayis of it is Metamei (even people and Kelim, if they touch or move it (Rambam; Rashi - even if they are in the same Ohel with it));
Wine of Nochrim (perhaps it was offered to idolatry) - one may not benefit from it, and a Revi'is of it can receive Tum'ah like a liquid (Rashi; Tosfos - a Revi'is is Tamei);
If Reuven deposited wine with a Nochri - one may not drink (what he takes back), but one may benefit from it.
Question (Mishnah): If Reuven deposited Peros with a Nochri, (we are concerned lest the Nochri switched it with his own Peros), Reuven must consider them (Safek) like the Nochri's Peros regarding Ma'aseros and Shemitah.
Answer #1: Rav Asi's law applies when they specified a corner in which the wine will be kept (Rashi - and Reuven received the key to that area, or the container was sealed).
Rejection: If so, it would be permitted to drink it!
When R. Yochanan went to Parod, he asked if anyone knew teachings of Bar Kapara.
(R. Tanchum citing Bar Kapara): If one deposits wine with a Nochri, he may drink it.
Question (R. Yochanan): How do we understand "Mekom she'Yipol ha'Etz Sham Yehu"? After a Tzadik dies, he is not there!
Answer (R. Yochanan): Rather, after he dies, the people of his area perpetuate his teachings.
Answer (R. Zeira): Rav Asi's law is like Chachamim, and the Mishnah is like R. Eliezer;
(Beraisa - R. Eliezer): If Reuven bought or rented a house in a Nochri's Chatzer and filled the house with wine, and Reuven has the key or a seal on it, the wine is permitted;
Chachamim forbid the wine.
(Rav or Ze'iri): The Halachah follows R. Eliezer.
Version #1 (R. Elazar (the Amora)): One seal suffices for everything except for wine.
(R. Yochanan): One seal suffices for everything, even for wine.
Version #1A: They do not argue (about what the Tana'im said). R. Elazar holds like Chachamim, and R. Yochanan holds like R. Eliezer.
Version #1B: They do not argue (about the Halachah. All agree that the Halachah follows R. Eliezer.) R. Elazar explains Chachamim, and R. Yochanan explains R. Eliezer.
Version #2 (R. Elazar): Two seals suffice for everything except for wine.
(R. Yochanan): Two seals suffice for everything, even for wine.
Both hold like Chachamim. R. Elazar explains that Chachamim argue even about two seals, and R. Yochanan explains that they only argue about one seal. (end of Version #2)
Question: What is the case of two seals?
Answer (Rava): A bucket on top of the barrel is a double seal only if it is plastered on;
A basket over a corked barrel is a double seal only if it fits snugly;
A wine pouch tied shut in a sealed sack is a double seal only if the opening of the pouch faces down (one must untie both in order to get the wine);
If one ties the pouch shut, presses the (tied opening) inside the pouch and ties again from the outside, this is a double seal.
(Beraisa): Originally, wine of Ein Kushi (and Barkesa... , cities of Kusim) was forbidden due to Biras Serika (and Kefar Parsha'i... , nearby cities of Nochrim). Later, Chachamim said that open barrels are forbidden, and closed barrels are permitted.
Question: Why did they originally forbid all wine, and why did they retract?
Answer: Originally, they thought that Kusim never guard wine from being touched by Nochrim;
Later, they reasoned that they do not guard open barrels, but they guard sealed barrels (because they intend to sell to them to Yisraelim).
Question: Even sealed barrels are forbidden!
(Beraisa): If one sends a barrel of wine with a Kusi, or fish brine (with or without the innards mixed in), it is permitted only if he recognizes the seal.
Answer #1 (R. Zeira): A Kusi guards (his own wine) in the city. He does not guard (another's wine) on the road.
Objection (R. Yirmeyah): Also wine in the city was transported! (Why is it permitted?)
Answer #2 (R. Yirmeyah): He guards when everyone is making wine, for then many people are around, and he fears lest people see a Nochri touch it.
BEER OF NOCHRIM
Question: Why is beer of Nochrim forbidden?
Answer #1 (Rami bar Chama): This is a decree to distance from Nochrim, lest Yisrael come to intermarry with them.
Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): It is because they leave it exposed (perhaps there is venom inside).
Question: At what stage of the process of making beer are we concerned for exposure?
If it is while it is fermenting in the vat, also we leave it exposed!
If it is while it is in the barrel, also we leave it exposed!
Answer: It is forbidden in a place where they leave the water (used for beer) exposed to become clear.
Question: If so, old beer should be permitted!
(Rav): If (wine or beer) was exposed, and it was aged, it is permitted. If it contained venom, it would not age properly;
If grape juice was exposed, and it fermented, it is permitted. If it contained venom, it would not ferment.
Answer: We decree against old beer due to new beer.
They would take beer out of a Nochri's house, and Rav Papa would drink on the porch;
They would bring beer from a Nochri's house to Rav Achai's house, he would drink in his house.
Both agree that it is forbidden (to drink in the Nochri's house) due to intermarriage. Rav Achai chose to distance himself further.
Rav Shmuel bar Bisna came to Margo'an (a city of Yisraelim in which they were not concerned if Nochrim touch wine). They brought to him wine, but he did not drink it. They brought to him beer, but he did not drink it.
Question: Granted, he did not drink the wine, lest a Nochri touched it. Why did he not drink the beer?
Answer: This was a personal stringency, lest he drink their wine.
(Rav): Beer of Nochrim is permitted. My son Chiya may not drink it.
Question: Either everyone is permitted, or everyone is forbidden!
Answer: Rav holds that it is forbidden because they leave it exposed. The bitterness of the hops burns the venom;
If one is already sick, this will aggravate his condition. His son was sick.
(Shmuel): All Sheratzim (rodents) have venom. Snake venom kills, but venom of other Sheratzim does not kill.
(Shmuel citing Rav): Nochrim do not die from drinking exposed liquids (even if snakes injected venom), because their bodies are hot from eating Shekatzim and Remasim (insects and swarming creatures), and this is Mevatel the venom.