More Discussions for this daf
1. Litol vs. Liten 2. Rambam's Opinion About Tza'ar b'Mekom Nezek 3. Curing Illness that is Min ha'Shamayim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA KAMA 85

R Karaguilla asks:

Shalom u Bracha

Tossfot DH she'Nitnah:

Says that a doctor can cure even a sickness that comes Min ha'Shamayim.

What is the Svara for that? If Hash-m gave the person Lo Aleinu a sickness may be he should not be able to cure him....

Tks

Binyomin K

Brazil

The Kollel replies:

Shalom!

I think the understanding of Tosafos is as follows:

The Gemora asks why the word "Rofei" is repeated? Once would ostensibly be enough to teach us that one who wounds his fellow must pay for the doctor. The Gemora answers that once teaches us the obligation to pay the doctor's bills and the second time teaches us that "Doctors have permission to practice medicine". Tosafos asks, the this could have been learned out from the FIRST "Rofei", because if the Torah tells you to pay the doctors' bills , we see (by default) that the doctor's practice of medicine is endorsed by the Torah. Says Tosafos no (in fact, could be due to the Svara that you mention) perhaps there is a difference between a physical injury and a sickness; and seeing as the Pesukim are dealing with treating injuries, we would not expand the Heter to include sicknesses, so we need a second verse. Once the second verse is revealed, your Svara is disqualified.

Hope you find this helpful.

Shimon Brodie

R Karaguilla asks:

Yes I understood .

But that's Gufa the question

Why if I gave Reuven the sickness can the doctor cure him, is it a gzeras hakatuv or is there a Svara for it?

The Kollel replies:

Your question is reminiscent of the Gemora in Baba Basra A If Hash-m loves the poor why doesn't he support them and Rabi Akiva answered "so that we will have reward for giving them charity" to which Turnerufus asked, on the contrary, if Hash-m is punishing them we should be punished for ameliorating their suffering (please see the Gemora inside). The bottom line is this: Avodas Hash-m is about doing what we were told to do. If the Tora says that the doctor can heal than that teaches us that the Svara that this healing is against Hashem's will in NOT a correct Svara.

In addition, the Svara has a fault as well. Hash-m created a world where we must reveal Him by seeing through the Hester. We must plant, even though the Parnossah is ultimately a miracle. We must eat even though Hash-m can keep us alive without food (Moshe Rabeinu, Eliyahu Hanavi). So too, we must go to a doctor when ill in order tointernalize that the doctor does nothing and it is only Hash-m who heals; this is a nisayon and the Hishtadlus is a Mitzvah. This concept is intrinsic to Jewish philosophy, and deserves to be dealt with at length,but I am afraid it is beyond this framework.

I hope this is satisfying butif not please keep the discussion going and I will try from another angle.

All the best

SB