Question: What difference is there are between the two concerns?

Answer #1: He was slaughtered in a marble house (there is no wind) and moved before dying.

Answer #2: He was slaughtered outside, and did not move.

(Mishnah - R. Yehudah ben Bava): It depends on the deceased...

Question: Does he allow more time to identify the body, or less?

Answer: A man drowned and his body was recovered after three days. Rav Dimi of Nehardai permitted his wife to remarry. A man drowned in the Diglas River and his body was recovered after five days. Rava permitted his wife to remarry.

Granted, if R. Yehudah allows more time, these Amora'im hold like him. However, if R. Yehudah allows less time, like whom did they rule?

Rejection: A body in water may be recognized for more time, for water prevents swelling and distortion of the face.

Question: Above we said that water aggravates a wound!

Answer: When there is a wound, it aggravates it. When there is no wound, it preserves the body.

This is only if he was seen right after removal from the water. If there was a delay, he swells up and changes.

(Mishnah): If a man fell into water, whether or not it is endless (this will be explained), his wife is forbidden;

R. Meir: A man fell into the great reservoir, and he came out after three days.

R. Yosi: A blind man went to immerse in a cave; the man leading him went after him. People with them waited until they surely drowned, and their wives were permitted to remarry.

A case occurred in Asya in which a man was lowered into water. When they lifted him, only his leg came up. Chachamim ruled that his wife may remarry only if more than the knee came up.

(Gemara - Beraisa - R. Meir): If a man fell into water, whether or not it is endless, his wife is forbidden;

Chachamim say, she is forbidden only if it is endless.

Question: What is considered water with an end?

Answer (Abaye): A person can see the shore in all four directions.

A man drowned in the swamp of Samki; Rav Shilo permitted his wife to remarry. Rav wanted to excommunicate him; Shmuel said that they should ask him first.

Rav and Shmuel asked him 'What is the law of endless water?' He answered that the wife is forbidden.

They asked if the swamp of Samki is considered endless; he said that it is.

Rav and Shmuel: Why did you permit the woman?

Rav Shilo: I erred. I thought that since the water does not flow, it is not like endless water;

This is wrong. There are waves, and these could take him far away (beyond vision of the witnesses).

Shmuel: "Sin will not occur to a Tzadik" (Hash-m prevented Rav from unjustly excommunicating R. Shilo).

Rav: "Salvation comes through much counsel."

(Beraisa - Rebbi): A case occurred in which Reuven and Shimon were setting fish traps in the Yarden. Reuven entered a hole to catch fish. The sun set, and he could not find the opening. Shimon waited until he surely drowned, and informed Reuven's family of his death.

In the morning, Reuven saw the opening and returned home, where they were eulogizing him.

Rebbi: How great are the words of Chachamim, who said that if the water has an end his wife is permitted, but if it is endless she is forbidden!

Question: Even if it has an end, we should be concerned for a fishing hole!

Answer: Fishing holes are not common in water with an end.

(Rav Ashi): Chachamim say that if the water is endless, she is forbidden. This refers to a regular person, but if a Chacham died, she is permitted. Had he survived, word would spread.

This is wrong. Whether or not he is a Chacham, if he fell in endless water, l'Chatchilah, his wife may not remarry. B'Di'eved, if she remarried, she may stay married.

(Beraisa - R. Gamliel): Once, I was on a boat and I saw a boat sink. I was distressed, for R. Akiva was on the boat. When I got to the dry land, I saw him learning.

R. Gamliel: How did you get to the land?

R. Akiva: I found a board of the boat (and floated on it). Every time a wave came (to submerge it), I nodded my head to the wave (and it went away).

Chachamim learned from here that if Resha'im come to a person, he should nod his head (and not confront them).

R. Gamliel: How great are the words of Chachamim, who said that his wife is permitted only if the water has an end!

(Beraisa - R. Akiva): Once, I was on a boat, and I saw a boat sink. I was distressed, for R. Meir was on the boat. When I got to the dry land, I saw him learning.

R. Akiva: How did you reach the land?

R. Meir: One wave carried me to the next wave, and the next to the next, until I was deposited on the land.

R. Akiva: How great are the words of Chachamim, who said that his wife is permitted only if the water has an end!

(Beraisa): If a man fell into a den of lions, we may not testify about him (that he died). If he fell into a pit of snakes and scorpions, we may testify;

R. Yehudah ben Beseirah says, even if he fell into a pit of snakes and scorpions, we may not testify. Perhaps he is a snake charmer!

Chachamim holds that since there is no room, he steps on them and they harm him.

(Beraisa): If a man fell into a furnace, we may testify about him;

If he fell into a cauldron of [boiling] wine or oil, we may testify;

R. Acha says, if he fell into oil, we may testify, since oil burns. If he fell into wine we may not testify, since it extinguishes the flame (underneath when it splashes).

Chachamim At first it (partly) extinguishes, but later, it burns.

(Mishnah - R. Meir): A man fell into the great reservoir (and came out after three days).

(Beraisa - Chachamim (to R. Meir)): We cannot bring a proof from miracles.

Question: What was the miracle?

Suggestion: He survived without eating or drinking for three days.

Rejection: This is not a miracle. All the Yisraelim in Shushan fasted three days on Esther's command!

Answer: He went three days without sleeping.

(R. Yochanan): If a man swore that he will not sleep for three days (this is a vain oath, for this is impossible) he is lashed immediately. He may sleep when he wants.

Question: What is R. Meir's reason?

Answer (Rav Kahana): There were structures for him to sleep on;

Chachamim hold that since they were of marble, he would slip and could not sleep.

R. Meir holds that he could sleep for a short time.

(Beraisa): The daughter of Nechunya the reservoir-digger fell into a reservoir. They informed R. Chanina ben Dosa. The first hour he said 'Shalom'; also, the second hour. The third hour, he said that she has already escaped.

R. Chanina ben Dosa: Who took you out?

The girl: There was a ram, and an old man leading it.

Rabanan (to R. Chanina ben Dosa): Are you a prophet?

R. Chanina ben Dosa: I am not a prophet, nor the Talmid (or son) of a prophet. I knew that since Nechunya toiled for this, his seed would not die through it.

(R. Aba): Nevertheless, his son died of thirst;

"U'Svivav NiS'ARaH Me'od" - Hash-m is exacting with His Tzadikim like a Sa'ARaH (hair).

R. Chanina: We learn this from "Hash-m is feared among the Holy, and awesome among all around Him."

(Mishnah): Even if Reuven heard women saying 'Ploni died' (he may testify that Ploni died);

R. Yehudah says, even if he heard children saying 'we are going to bury and eulogize Ploni'.

It doesn't matter whether or not the one who mentioned his death intended to testify;

R. Yehudah ben Bava says, we rely on a Yisrael (who said that Ploni died) said even if he intended to testify. We rely on a Nochri only if he did not intend to testify.

(Gemara) Question: Perhaps the children never went to the funeral (and he did not die)!

Answer (Rav Yehudah): They said 'we are coming from eulogizing and burying Ploni.'

Question: Perhaps they buried an ant, and named it Ploni!

Answer: They mentioned the number of Chachamim and eulogizers who were there.

(Mishnah - R. Yehudah ben Bava): If a Nochri intended to testify, we may not rely on this.

(Rav Yehudah and Reish Lakish): This is only if he intended to permit. If he intended (only) to testify, he is believed.

Question: How do we know his intention?

Answer (Rav Yosef): If he comes to Beis Din and says 'Ploni died; let his wife remarry', he intends to permit. If he says only 'Ploni died', he intends to testify.

Question (R. Yochanan, against Reish Lakish): A case occurred in which Oshaya b'Ribi said like you, and 85 Chachamim opposed him.

Question: If he is never believed with intention, when is he believed? (The Mishnah implies that sometimes he is believed!)

Answer: He is believed when he speaks l'Fi Tumo (unaware of consequences of his words).

A Nochri was saying 'Who is from Chivai's house? Who is from Chivai's house? Chivai died!' Rav Yosef permitted his wife to remarry.

A Nochri was saying 'Woe to the valiant soldier of Pumbadisa who died'. Rav Yosef (or Rava) permitted his wife.

A Nochri was saying, 'Who is from Chasa's house? Chasa drowned!'

Version #1 - Rav Nachman: Ha'Elokim (this resembles an oath)! Fish ate Chasa!

Chasa's wife remarried based on hearing Rav Nachman say this. No one commented.

Inference (Rav Ashi): This shows that the Isur to remarry when a man fell into endless water is only l'Chatchilah. B'Di'eved, if she remarried she may remain married.

Version #2: Rav Nachman permitted Chasa's wife to remarry.

He reasoned that Chasa is a great man, so had he come to safety we would have heard.

This is wrong. Whether or not he is great, l'Chatchilah his wife may not remarry. B'Di'eved, she may stay married.

A Nochri told a Yisrael 'Cut fodder and give it to my animals on Shabbos. If not, I will kill you like I killed Ploni the Yisrael, because he refused to cook for me on Shabbos.'