SHABBOS 83 (5 Sivan) - This Daf has been dedicated l'Zecher Nishmas Reb Chaim Aryeh ben Aharon Stern Z'L, by Shmuel Gut of Brooklyn N.Y.

1)

WHAT IS CONSIDERED ATTACHED (Yerushalmi Perek 9 Halachah 1 Daf 57b)

אית מתניתא אמר עכו"ם כנדה ומשמשיה כנידה. ואית מתניתא אמרה עכו"ם כנדה ומשמשיה כשרץ.

(a)

One Beraisa teaches that idolatry is [Tamei] like a Nidah and Meshamsheha (Kelim used for it) are like a Nidah, and another Beraisa teaches that idolatry is like a Nidah and Meshamsheha are like a Sheretz.

מאן דאמר עכו"ם כנדה ומשמשיה כנידה ניחא.

(b)

Question: The one who says that idolatry is like a Nidah and Meshamsheha are like a Nidah, this is fine (the source to equate idolatry to a Nidah discusses Meshamsheha);

ומאן דאמר עכו"ם כנדה ומשמשיה כשרץ כל עצמו אין כתיב נידה אלא במשמשין. [ישעי' ל כב] וטמאתם את ציפוי פסילי כספך ואת אפדת מסכת זהבך.

1.

The one who says that idolatry is like a Nidah and Meshamsheha are like a Sheretz, [how does he learn]? The entire [Hekesh to] Nidah is written only about Meshamsheha - "v'Timeisem Es Tzipuy Pesilei Chaspecha v'Es Afudas Masechas Zehavecha"!

תיפתר בחקוקים על גופה.

(c)

Answer #1: [The verse discusses idolatry] engraved in [the plating and Efod] itself (therefore they are actual idolatry, and not mere Meshamsheha).

רבי יעקב דכפר חנן אמר תיפתר במשתחוה לאפוד עצמו כענין שנאמר [שופטים ח כז] ויעש אותו גדעון לאפוד.

(d)

Answer #2 (R. Yakov of Kefar Chanan): [The verse discusses] one who bows to the Efod itself, like it says "va'Ya'as Oso Gid'on l'Efod."

מתניתין כמאן דאמר עכו"ם כנידה ומשמשיה כנדה. ותנינן אבניו ועציו ואפרו מטמאין כשרץ. [דף נח עמוד א]

(e)

Support (for the opinion that idolatry is like a Nidah and Meshamsheha are like a Nidah - Mishnah): Its rocks, wood and ash are Metamei like a Sheretz. (R. Akiva says, they are like a Nidah.)

תיפתר שהשתחוה לבית ואחר כך בנאו.

(f)

Rebuttal: We can say that he bowed to the house, and afterwards built it (therefore it is actual idolatry, and not mere Meshamsheha).

(והא תנינן ג' בתים הן. תיפתר שהשתחוה לבית ואחר כך חידשו - רידב"ז מוחקו מכאן וגורסו לקמן) דאמר רבי זעירא רב הונה בשם רב המשתחוה לבית אסרו.

1.

(R. Ze'ira citing Rav Huna citing Rav): One who bowed to a house forbade it. (What is attached to the ground cannot become forbidden due to idolatry. We must say that he bowed to the materials from which he built, and afterwards built it, and Rav holds that something detached that was later attached is considered detached.)

רבי זעירא ר' אבהו בשם רבי יוחנן המקדיש את הבית [צ"ל אין - קרבן העדה] מועלין בו.

(g)

(R. Zeira citing R. Avahu citing R. Yochanan): If one was Makdish a house, Me'ilah does not apply to it [Me'ilah does not apply to what is attached].

אמר רבי זעירא הויי בה רבנן פליגא מאן דאמר אסרו מועלין בו. מאן דאמר (לא אסרו אין מועלין בו) [צ"ל אין מועלין בו לא אסרו - קרבן העדה]

1.

R. Zeira: Rabanan said that they argue - the one who says that he forbade it [it is considered detached, so], Me'ilah applies to it. The one who says that Me'ilah does not apply to it [it is considered attached, so], he did not forbid it.

[צ"ל והא תנינן ג' בתים הן. - רידב"ז]

(h)

Question (against R. Yochanan): A Mishnah teaches that there are three [laws of] houses [regarding idolatry. One of them is that he built it l'Shem idolatry. According to R. Yochanan, it is attached, so it should be permitted!]

[צ"ל תיפתר שהשתחוה לבית ואחר כך בנאו - רידב"ז]

(i)

Answer: The case is, he bowed to the house, and afterwards built it.

התיב רבי חגי קומי רבי יוסה מתניתא פליגא על רב

(j)

Question (R. Chagai, to R. Yosah): A Mishnah opposes Rav!

השוקת שבסלע אין ממלאין בה [צ"ל ואין מקדשין בה ואין מזין ממנה וא"צ צמיד פתיל ואינה פוסלת המקוה היתה כלי וחיברה בסיד ממלאין בה - קרבן העדה]

1.

(Mishnah): A hollowed out attached rock next to a spring - one may not fill it with water [to be Mekadesh the water to be Mei Chatas, for it is not considered a Kli], one may not be Mekadesh in it, one may not sprinkle [Mei Chatas] from it, it does not need a Tzamid Pasil (snug seal to shield its contents from Tum'ah in Ohel ha'Mes), and [water that was in it] does not disqualify a Mikveh. If it was a Kli and he attached it with plaster, one may fill it;

מפני שחקקה ואח"כ חיברו. הא אם חיברה ואח"כ חקקה לא

2.

Inference: This is because he hollowed it out and afterwards attached it, but if he attached it and afterwards hollowed it out, no. (Do not say that the Reisha discusses only when it was always attached, and he hollowed it out. If so, the Seifa should have taught a bigger Chidush, that even if he attached a rock and hollowed it out, it is considered a Kli! - PNEI MEIR)

וההן בית לאו כמי (שחקקו ואח"כ חיברו הוה) [צ"ל שחיברו ואחר כך חקקו הוא - קרבן העדה] מה עבד לה רב

3.

Also the house, is it not like [a Kli] that he attached and afterwards carved out?! (PNEI MEIR - only when one made a Kli and attached it, it is still considered a Kli. This does not apply to a house; always, when it is built it is considered attached.) How can Rav answer this?

פתר לה סיתותן של אבנים היא גמר מלאכתן.

(k)

Answer: He answers that cutting rocks is their final Melachah [so it is like one who made a Kli and attached it; it is still considered detached].

ולית הדא פליגא על רבי יוחנן דרבי יוחנן אמר עכו"ם שנשתברה אסורה.

(l)

Implied question: (Above we cited a Mishnah that says that the rocks, wood and ash [of a house of idolatry] are Metamei like a Sheretz.) This does not argue with R. Yochanan. R. Yochanan said that idolatry that broke is forbidden. (However, it is unlike Reish Lakish, who permits idolatry that broke!)

לא כן סברנן מימר אם בשאינו עתיד להחזירן לכליין דברי הכל מותר. והא תנינן שלש אבנים הן.

(m)

Broadening of question: Do we not hold that if in the future he will not return them like initially, all permit? A Mishnah teaches that there are three [laws of rocks used for idolatry. If one erected idolatry on a rock and removed it, it is permitted. If so, it is difficult also for R. Yochanan!]

[דף נח עמוד ב] תיפתר שנשתחוה לכל אבן ואבן ואח"כ בנייה.

(n)

Answer #1: The case is, he bowed to every rock, and afterwards built it.

ואפילו על רבי שמעון בן לקיש לית היא פליגא דרבי שמעון בן לקיש אמר עכו"ם שנשתברה מותרת. לא כן סברנן מימר אם בעתיד להחזירן לכליין דברי הכל אסור.

(o)

Answer #2: And even according to Reish Lakish, this is not difficult [even if he bowed to the house, like we thought initially]. Reish Lakish said that that idolatry that broke is permitted. Do we not hold that if in the future it will be returned to like initially, all forbid?! (We explained this Sugya like RIDVAZ.)

ואמר רבי יודן אבוי דרבי מתני' אם היו מונחין במקומן לא כמי שהוא עתיד להחזירן לכליין הן ואילו במקומן הן.

1.

And R. Yudan the father of R. Matanyah said that if [the fragments] are resting in their place, is it not as if in the future it will be returned to like initially? These are in their place [so all forbid]!

רבי בא בשם רב המשתחוה לבית אסרו לאילן לא אסרו.

(p)

(R. Ba citing Rav): One who bowed to a house forbade it. [If he bowed] to a tree, he did not forbid it.

והא תנינן שלש אשירות הן

(q)

Question: A Mishnah teaches that there are three [laws of] Asheiros. (If it was planted l'Shem idolatry, it is forbidden!)

תיפתר שנשתחוה לזמורה ואחר כך נטעה.

(r)

Answer: That is when he bowed to a sprig and later planted it.

לוי אמר השתחוה לבית אסרו למערה לא אסרו.

(s)

(Levi): One who bowed to a house forbade it. [If he bowed] to a cave, he did not forbid it.

מה בין בית ומה בין מערה

(t)

Question: What is the difference between a house and a cave?

אמר רבי חנניה בריה דר' הילל בית היה לו שעת תלישה. מערה לא היה לה שעת תלישה:

(u)

Answer (R. Chananyah brei d'R. Hillel): A house was once detached. A cave was never detached.

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