May one learn Divrei Torah from an Amgushi?

Rashi: No. He is a heretic who draws people to idolatry!

What is the meaning of Asur Lesaper Heimenu?

Ben Yehoyada: One may not talk highly about him.

Rav Elyashiv: Rosh Yosef citing Eliyahu Rabah (340:14) says, do not say teachings in his name, lest he be considered a Chacham. This is Midah k'Neged Midah - he was not concerned to honor and publicize Chochmas ha'Torah. Also the Me'iri and the Acharonim hold like this. We find that all kings of the east and west came to Avraham's door, for he was a great astrologer. There are two other opinions in the Rishonim. (a) The Rambam (Pe'er ha'Dor 53, Hilchos Yesodei ha'Torah 4:2) holds that one should ctmp Tekufos and Mazalos to recognize Hash-m's grandeur and his own lowliness. Via this, he will love and fear Hash-m. When (just before) Avraham died, he hung his astronomy on the sun (Bava Basra 16b). Chasam Sofer there explains, he taught people to look at the sun and Mazalosl via this, they repented (loved and feared Hash-m). Binah l'itim (Drush 11) says that he told future events - kings came to his door to hear them - but he left the Chochmah in his heart (did not teach it), lest others err. Perhaps this is why this Chochmah darkened nowadays; we do not teach it, lest people err. The Ramban (Devarim 18:13) explains that "Tamim Tihyeh" forbids asking astrology; Rashi and others hold that it forbids Ov and Yid'oni... (b) Bahag, Yere'im, SMaG and the Chinuch hold that there is a Mitzvah to calculate Tekufos and Mazalos, not only what is needed for Kidush ha'Chodesh. The Chinuch says that there are great secrets in it.

Does Shmuel argue with Rav about the Amgushi that Rav discusses?

Rashi: No, they argue about the Amgushi discussed everywhere [via earlier Chachamim].

Tosfos citing the Aruch: No, they argue about Rav Papa's teaching that Pharaoh was an Amgushi. "He is going out to the water" - one said, in order to do witchcraft. The other said, he made himself an idolatry - he said "Li Ye'ori va'Ani Asisini."

Tosfos: You cannot say that Rav and Shmuel argue about the teaching of Rav Papa (who was after them)!

Daf Al ha'Daf: Why did Pharaoh need to go to the water? He could sit in his house and say "Li Ye'ori..."! Rashi (Bereishis 47:8) explains, "va'Yevarech Yakov Es Pharaoh" - the water rose to his legs. Egypt does not get rain; the Nile rises and waters the land. People saw the Nile rise to greet him, and he said "Li Ye'ori..." We can say that Rav and Shmuel based on their argument about "va'Yakam Melech Chadash" - did Pharaoh die and a new king reigned, or he made new decrees. if the latter, it is the same king. Yakov blessed him, and he made himself idolatry; Amgushi is a Gedufi. if it was a new king, he did not have Yakov's Berachah; he went to the water for witchcraft. The Aruch did not mean that Rav and Shmuel argue about Rav Papa's teaching. Rather, the Perush of Rav Papa's words depends on the argument of Rav and Shmuel. The text of the Aruch is like this, unlike the way Tosfos cited him. (NOTE: Rashi (Shemos 8:15, from Shemos Rabah 9:8) says that he claimed to be a god, who need not defecate, so he defecated covertly in the river. - PF)

Tosfos citing Ri: They argue about Amgushi mentioned somewhere, in a Mishnah or Beraisa.

What is Gedufi?

Rashi: it is an avid idolater. He constantly blasphemes and entices people to serve idolatry.

What would be the Havah Amina to forbid learning from a witch?

Rashi: it says "Lo Yimatzei Vecha... u'Mechashef."

Why may one understand witchcraft?

Rashi: You may learn to understand - if a false Navi will do [wonders] in front of you, you will understand that he is a witch.

Daf Al ha'Daf: Rashi on the verse explains, you may learn to understand how depraved are their ways, to teach your sons not to do so. Geres Karmel (Shofetim) brings from Maharshal (YD 179) that one may learn from a witch in order to save himself or others. Here Rashi discuss saving yourself; Rashi on Chumash explained saving others.

Daf Al ha'Daf citing R' Y. Perlah (Perush on Sefer ha'Mitzvos of Rav Sadya Gaon): Gemaros permit even actions, in order to understand and rule. R. Eliezer did an action of witchcraft, and R. Gamliel made forms of the moon [to interrogate witnesses of the new moon]. What is the source to permit an action? The Ramah (Sof Perek Arba Misos) brings "Lo Silmad La'asos k'So'avos ha'Goyim ha'Hem" - do not engage in them for your benefit, like their abominations, but you may learn, and even do, for the sake of understanding and ruling. What is the source that one may not learn, if not to understand and rule? Perhaps the isur is only to learn in order to do! i answer that regarding learning, the Gemara permits only in order to understand and rule. in such a case, it permits even an action.

Why does it say "Lo Yabitu... Lo Ra'u"?

Maharsha: This Chochmah comes to man via physical sight, and intellectual sight (contemplation), according to astronomers' calculations.

iyun Yakov: Those who do not calculate think that the world follows its [natural] conduct. They do not attribute them to Hash-m.

Daf Al ha'Daf: This is a great Chochmah. Many Gedolei Yisrael did not attain it. The Ra'avad (Kidush ha'Chodesh 7:7) wrote 'the Rambam says that he mastered this Chochmah. i and my Rebbeyim did not, so i did not check that he is correct.'

How can the Chachmah of Tekufos and Mazalos be shown to Nochrim?

Rashi: Through them, one can predict whether the coming year will be rainy or hot, for these depends on the trajectory of the sun, when it enters the Mazalos.

Maharsha: Tekufos and Mazalos are not in order to fix the Mo'adim. They depend on primarily on the moon's trajectory! They do not affect the months. (NOTE: They do not affect which day is Rosh Chodesh, but a consideration for ibur Shanah is that Tekufas Nisan be in Nisan (Rosh Hashanah 21a)! - PF)

Etz Yosef citing R. Dover of Slonim: Bar Kapara (Kesuvos 5a) taught that Tzadikim's deeds are greater than the creation of Shamayim and earth. A verse teaches that one hand of Hash-m made earth, and one hand made Heaven, but the Mikdash is called the work of both hands. We ask from "u'Ma'aseh Yadav Magid ha'Raki'a", and answer that the Raki'a tells the work of the hands of Tzadikim , i.e. rain. Rashi explained that Tzadikim's deeds are called the work of His hands. Tzadikim pray for rain, and it descends. i.e. they calculate whether the year will be rainy or hot. When they know that it will be hot, they pray for rain, and Hash-m overrides the Ma'arachah and nature. This publicizes Po'al Hash-m (overriding them) and Ma'ase Tzadikim (their Tefilah helps). This is for one who calculates. if he does not calculate, he thinks that the rain is natural.

Daf Al ha'Daf citing the Admor of Belz: it says "Ki Hi Chachmaschem...; Ki Mi Goy Gadol Asher Lo Elokim Kerovim Elav ka'Shem Elokeinu b'Chol Kar'enu Elav" - Yisrael can change the calculations via Tefilah!

Rav Elyashiv: Predicting in public whether the year will be rainy or hot is Kidush Shem Shamayim. People see that even this is known via Torah! Not calculating inhibits Kidush Hash-m. Sefer Chasidim (833) says that a Chacham knew how to tell if an animal or bird is Tereifah. He did not want to teach others, lest they err. (Darchei Moshe (YD 35:1) gives the Siman.) This is unlike our Sugya! Perhaps here discusses one who does not calculate, so he cannot tell those who ask. i prefer to say that the Siman was only usually correct; it was unlike here. Perhaps nowadays we do not publicize the Chochmos, like Moshe said ka'Chatzos, for now many seek fault, denounce, dispute and mock, so passivity is better.

Maharsha: Chochmah and Binah of Torah are not found among Goyim, but these Chochmos are.

Rav Elyashiv: One who calculates them does not fulfill Mitzvas Talmud Torah (Ramban, Sefer ha'Mitzvos Shoresh 2), except for what pertains to Kidush ha'Chodesh. They are called Parpar'os (desserts) of Chochmah (Avos 3:18) - they are not Torah itself. The same applies to Gematriyos. Even so, one must learn it and show it to Nochrim. After one learned the entire Torah, he must learn Ma'ase Merkavah, and the order that Hash-m fixed to serve Him. The Ramban asked why they are only Parpar'os, and not Torah itself. There is no isur of Bitul Torah in learning them, for this is a Mitzvah, unlike Chochmas Yevanis. The Ran and other Rishonim hold that it refutes the Nochrim who think that the stars and Mazalos have power, and therefore there are consequences of Likuy (eclipse) of the sun or moon. We refute them. We show that Hash-m fixed from the beginning when these will occur, so there is no reason to serve stars and Mazalos.

Daf Al ha'Daf: Torah Temimah (Devarim 4:6) says that Nochrim made the sun, moon and stars into gods. One who calculates Tekufos and Mazalos proves that they have no power to do as they want - they are forced to go like the calculation! Panim Yafos explains, if one knows to calculate, but does not, this shows that it does not bother him that people serve these matters.

Rif (on the Ein Yakov): [Yisrael were] "Mashkimei va'Boker Shechar Yirdofu Me'acharei va'Neshef Yayin Yadlikem", and this calculation needs a settled mind, lest one err in the calculation. They are confounded amidst inebriety, and hearing harps and flutes - "Galah Ami mi'Beli Da'as." This explains how the Galus came for wine - such a punishment is not proper for drinking wine! Rather, wine inhibited them from calculation of Tekufos and Mazalos. Had they had this calculation, the Goyim would have honored them in Galus. However, they were steeped in wine, and forgot their learning and lost their Chochmah.

iyun Yakov: Via the calculation, one knows when there will be a change, e.g. eclipses of the sun and moon. Therefore, he is not afraid when changes come - "ume'Osos ha'Shamayim Al Techasu."

Daf Al ha'Daf: Shevus Yakov (3:20) says that many Gedolim did not want to rely on Chachmei Goyim for these calculations, "Ki Hi Chachmaschem u'Vinaschem l'Einei ha'Amim" - they do not know it clearly. How can we learn from them?! The Rambam (Hilchos Kidush ha'Chodesh, Sof Perek 17) says that his calculations are from what Chachmei Yavan wrote, for he did not get what Chachmei Yisrael wrote. This is unlike Shevus Yakov! Likutei Maharan says that even if Chachmei Yisrael teach it to Goyim, they will know only that Chachmei Yisrael know it, but they cannot understand it. Achashverosh consulted with Chachamim "Yode'ei ha'itim." The Midrash says that this is "Ki Hi Chachmaschem... l'Einei ha'Amim." An expert in this is called a Chacham. Korach gathered "Keru'ei Mo'ed" (Bamidbar 16:2); they knew to make ibur Shanah and fix months (Sanhedrin 110a). They were considered Chachamim - he thought that they will be able to draw all of Yisrael after them.