Answer #5 (Beraisa): "Nivzeh b'Einav Nim'as" refers to Chizkiyah, who dragged his father's bones on a bed of ropes.

If (eulogies or other honor shown to the dead) were to honor the living, he would not have done so (to disgrace the living)!

Rejection: He did so in order that the disgrace would atone for his father.

Question: If it is to honor the living, he should not have delayed the honor of Yisrael (the eulogy) for the sake of his father!

Answer: Yisrael pardoned their honor to him.

Answer #6: Before Rebbi died, he instructed 'do not eulogize me in cities.'

If it is to honor the living, what difference does it make to him?

Rejection: He wanted Yisrael to get more honor through himself.

Answer #7 (Mishnah): If he left him for his honor, to bring a coffin or shrouds, he does not transgress.

Suggestion: it means, for the deceased's honor.

Rejection: No, it means for the honor of the living.

Question: Do we leave the deceased overnight in order to honor the living?!

Answer: Yes! The Isur "Lo Salin" resembles leaving a person hanging, which is a disgrace. Here, it is not a disgrace.

Answer #8 (Beraisa): If he left him for his honor, for eulogizers to gather in cities, to bring women to wail over him, to bring a coffin or shrouds, he does not transgress, for these are purely to honor the deceased.

Rejection: It means, whatever is purely to honor the living, this is not a disgrace to the deceased.

Answer #9 (Beraisa - R. Nasan): It is a good sign for the deceased if he is punished in this world, e.g. if he was not eulogized, was not buried, was dragged around by an animal, or it was raining on him.

Since it is an atonement if he was not eulogized, this shows that the eulogy is to honor the deceased.

(Mishnah): Someone executed is not buried with his family.

Question: What is the reason?

Answer: We do not bury a Rasha next to a Tzadik.

(R. Acha bar Chanina): We learn from "va'Yashilchu Es ha'Ish b'Kever Elisha va'Yiga ha'Ish b'Atzmos Elisha va'Ychi va'Yakam Al Raglav." (A Rasha was buried in Elisha's grave. The man revived and walked out.)

Question (Rav Papa): You assume that he was revived because a Rasha may not be buried near a Tzadik;

Perhaps he was revived to fulfill "vi'Hi Na Pi Shnayim b'Ruchacha Alai"! (Elisha requested to have twice the Ru'ach ha'Kodesh that Eliyahu had, and Eliyahu agreed. Eliyahu revived one Mes, and this was Elisha's second.)

Answer (Rav Acha): If so, he should have lived longer;

(Beraisa): He stood on his legs, but he did not even reach his house.

Question: If so, when did Elisha revive another person, to fulfill Eliyahu's blessing?

Answer (R. Yochanan): He cured Na'aman's Tzara'as;

A Metzorah is considered to be dead - "Al Na Sehi ka'Mes."

Similarly, we do not bury a severe Rasha near a less severe Rasha.

Question: Beis Din should have four cemeteries, one for each death penalty!

Answer: A tradition from Moshe from Sinai teaches that Beis Din has two cemeteries.

(Ula citing R. Yochanan): If one (mistakenly) ate Chelev, was Makdish a Korban to atone for this, became a Mumar (idolator, who may not offer a Korban) and repented, since the animal was once Nidcheh (unable to be offered), it can never be offered.

(R. Yirmeyah citing R. Yochanan): If one ate Chelev, was Makdish a Korban, went crazy and regained sanity, since the animal was once Nidcheh, it can never be offered.

He needed to teach both cases.

Had he taught only the first case, one might have thought that there it can never be offered, because he actively was Docheh the Korban, but insanity happens by itself, so he is like one who goes to sleep (the Korban is not (permanently) Nidcheh);

Had he taught only the second case, one might have thought that there it can never be offered, because he cannot restore his sanity, but a Mumar can always repent (so his Korban is not Nidcheh).

Support (Rav Yosef - Mishnah): If there were Kodshei Mizbe'ach in an Ir ha'Nidachas, we do not burn them with the rest of the city, we precipitate their death;

If there were Kodshei Bedek ha'Bayis, we redeem them.

Question: Why do we kill Kodshei Mizbe'ach? Once the owners die, that is an atonement for them. The Korbanos (are no longer "Zevach Resha'im", so they) should be offered!

Answer #1: This is because once a Korban was Nidcheh, it is permanently Nidcheh.

Objection (and Answer #2 - Abaye): No, death is not an atonement for one who died without Teshuvah.

Suggestion: Perhaps a Kohen becomes Tamei to bury a relative who separated from the ways of the Tzibur (e.g. a Mumar)!

Rejection: (Rav Shemaya): He is Mitamei "b'Amav", only for one who acted like your people.

Objection (against Abaye - Rava): There is a difference between one who died without Teshuvah and one who was executed without Teshuvah. Since the latter did not die naturally, his death atones for him!

Support (Rava, for himself) Question: "...Nivlas Avadecha... Besar Chasidecha" - what do these refer to?

Answer: "Chasidecha" are the true Tzadikim. "Avadecha (Your servants)" are those who were Chayav Misah. Since they were killed, they are called "Your servants."

Rejection (Abaye): Death at the hands of the king is different than execution by Beis Din;

Those killed by the king were not killed according to law, therefore it atones for them;

Those killed by Beis Din were killed according to law, therefore it does not atone for them (without Teshuvah).

Support (Abaye, for himself - Mishnah): Someone executed is not buried with his family.

If Misas Beis Din is an atonement, he should be buried with his family right away!

Rejection (Rava): Death and the burial together bring atonement.

Question (Rav Ada bar Ahavah - Mishnah): The relatives do not mourn. They conduct Aninus, for this is not apparent to others.

If death and the burial bring atonement, they should mourn!

Answer #1: Decomposition of the flesh is also needed for atonement.

Support (Mishnah): After the flesh has decomposed, his bones are buried with his family.

Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Really, death and the burial bring atonement by themselves;

Mourning should begin from Stimas ha'Golel (Rashi - sealing of the coffin; R. Tam - placing a stone to mark off the grave), atonement is only after suffering pain of burial;

Since they were Nidchim (disqualified) from beginning mourning at the proper time, they are permanently Nidchim.

Question: If so, why do we wait until the flesh decomposes before burying the bones with his family?

Answer: It is not feasible to collect the bones while the flesh is rotting.

People would take dirt from Rav's grave to cure a fever on the first day.

Shmuel: It is permitted. The ground does not become forbidden.

"Va'Yashlach Es Afarah (of the Asheirah) Al Kever Bnei ha'Am" equates a grave to idolatry:

Idolatry attached to the ground is permitted. The Torah forbids "Eloheihem Al he'Harim" (their gods on the mountains), but the mountains are not their gods;

Likewise, attached dirt of a grave is permitted.

Question (Beraisa): If one dug a grave for his father (or anyone else, after his death) and buried him elsewhere, no one else may be buried in the first grave.

Answer: The case is, he made a tomb above ground (since it was originally detached, it becomes forbidden).

Question (Beraisa): One may benefit from a new grave;

If a Nefel (stillborn baby) was put inside, one may not benefit from it;

Answer: Here also, the tomb is above ground.

Question (Beraisa): There are three types of graves: a found grave, a known grave, and a grave that harms the public.

If one finds a grave on his property that he did not authorize, he may move it. After he does so, its place is Tahor, and one may benefit from it;

One may not move a known grave (the owner of the property authorized it). If he moved it, its place is Tamei and one may not benefit from it;

If a grave harms the public, one may move it. After he does so, its place is Tahor, and one may not benefit from it.

Answer: Here also, the tomb is above ground.

Question: Why may one move a found grave? Perhaps it was a Mes Mitzvah, which acquires (the right to remain in) its place!

Answer: A Mes Mitzvah becomes known. (Since we did not hear about it, we are not concerned for this.)

(Abaye): If one wove a garment for a Mes, one may not benefit from it;

(Rava): One may benefit from it.

Abaye forbids, because designation takes effect;

Rava permits, because designation has no effect.

Question: What is Abaye's reason?

Answer: He learns a Gezerah Shavah "Sham-Sham" from Eglah Arufah. Just like the calf is forbidden through designation (being taken to the Nachal (valley or river)), also designation for a Mes.

Rava learns the Gezerah Shavah "Sham-Sham" from idolatry. Just like (a Keli to serve) idolatry is not forbidden through designation (until he serves with it), also designation for a Mes.

Question: Why doesn't Rava learn from Eglah Arufah?