WHEN DOES SHEMITAH APPLY TO FRUIT? (cont.)
Question (R. Simi of Neharda'a): Chachamim argue only about grapes, not about other trees!
(Mishnah) Question: When does the Isur to cut trees in Shemitah begin?
Answer #1 (Beis Shamai): It is forbidden once they bear fruits;
Answer #2 (Beis Hillel): Carob trees are forbidden once they produce rings of carobs, vines are forbidden once Yigre'u (they produce Giru'a, large grapes), olives once their Netz (flower) grows, and other trees are forbidden once they bear fruits.
(Rav Asi): Boser (unripe grapes), Giru'a and white beans are all the same.
Objection: This cannot be!
Clarification: Rather, Boser and Giru'a are the size of white beans.
Summation of question: Beis Hillel do not forbid [cutting vines with] Smadar, only [vines with] Boser (more developed) - this is like Chachamim - yet they forbid other trees once they bear fruits!
Answer: R. Ilai cut a male tree (its dates never develop).
(Beraisa #1): One may eat grapes until the trellises of Ochel (a certain place) are finished; if there are still grapes elsewhere, one may still eat;
One may eat olives until they are finished in Teko'a;
R. Eliezer says, one may eat olives until they are so few left in Gush Chalav that a poor person cannot find a quarter (Kav, about half a liter) on the branches or near the trunk.
One may eat figs until Pagim (unripe figs) are finished in Beis Hini;
R. Yehudah says, Pagei Beis Hini were mentioned [in the Beis Medrash] only regarding Ma'aser [but one may not eat figs unless proper figs remain in the field];
Pagei Beis Hini and dates of Tuvina are subject to Ma'aser [even though they are very small].
One may eat dates until they are finished in Tzo'ar;
R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, one may eat as long as dates are left between the Lulavim, but not on account of dates between thorns.
Contradiction (Beraisa #2): One may eat grapes until Pesach, olives until Shavu'os, figs until Chanukah, and dates until Purim.
(Rav Bivi): R. Yochanan switches the last two (dates are until Chanukah, and figs are until Purim).
Answer #1: These are the same times as in Beraisa #1.
Answer #2: [Normally, one may eat until the times in Beraisa #2 -] Beraisa #1 teaches that one may eat longer if the fruits are still available somewhere.
A sign that a place is considered a mountain is gallnut trees (this will be explained); a sign of a valley is dates; a sign of a Nachal (Rashi - hard valley; Rambam - river) is reeds; a sign of a low place is sycamore trees;
There is a hint, even though it is not a proof - "...Ka'Shikmim Asher ba'Shefelah."
Signs for mountains and valleys pertain to Bikurim:
(Mishnah): We do not bring Bikurim other than the seven species [of Eretz Yisrael], nor from dates that grow in the mountains nor grain that grows in valleys (they are inferior.)
A sign of a Nachal pertains to Nachal Eisan [for Eglah Arufah, a calf beheaded for atonement when a murdered corpse is found];
A sign of a low place pertains to commerce (if someone said 'I sell to you a low place', he may give any place with sycamore trees).
We can say that all of these signs pertain to commerce!
CONCERN LEST ONE APPEAR TO EAT KODSHIM B'CHUTZ
(Mishnah): In a place where the custom is to sell small animals (e.g. goats and sheep, which do not work) to Nochrim, we may sell; in a place where the custom is not to sell, it is forbidden.
In all places it is forbidden to sell large animals, calves and foals, whether they are healthy or lame (see note in Appendix);
R. Yehudah permits selling a lame animal;
Ben Beseira permits selling a horse.
[Nowadays, after the Churban,] in a place where the practice is to eat roasted meat on Pesach night, it is permitted; where the practice is not to, it is forbidden.
(Gemara - Rav Yehudah): [Nowadays, even after an animal was slaughtered] one may not say 'this meat is for Pesach', for it looks like he is Makdish it [for Pesach], and [later it appears as if he] eats Kodshim outside the Mikdash.
(Rav Papa): This only applies to meat - but one may say 'this wheat is for Pesach', for he clearly intends to guard it [from water] to eat it on Pesach [and not to buy Korban Pesach with it].
Question: We are not concerned regarding meat [unless it is a whole animal]!
Version #1 (Beraisa - R. Yosi): Tudus Ish Romi accustomed Yisraelim in Rome to eat goats roasted whole on Pesach night. Chachamim sent to him 'We would excommunicate you for this if you were not Tudus - you feed to Yisrael Kodshim outside the Mikdash!'
Objection: Surely, he did not!
Correction: Rather, he is prone to cause them to eat Kodshim outside the Mikdash.
Inference: It is forbidden only if it is roasted whole - in any other case it is permitted!
Answer: No - when it is roasted whole, it is forbidden even if he did not say anything;
When it is not roasted whole, it is forbidden only if he said 'this is for Pesach'.
Version #2: Rav Acha taught the above Beraisa of Tudus, but he said that R. Shimon is the Tana.
Question (Rav Sheshes): We understand if R. Yosi is the Tana [like Version #1] - but R. Shimon cannot be the Tana!
(Mishnah): [If one vowed to bring 'a Minchah of barley', he must bring a proper voluntary Minchah of wheat;] R. Shimon exempts, for he did not vow the way people vow. (Chachamim say that his first words, 'Alai Minchah', obligate him to bring a [proper] Minchah - since his latter words contradict this, we ignore them; R. Shimon considers all the words he said - his latter words show that he never intended for a real Minchah. R. Shimon would not be concerned for a goat roasted whole - even if one would say [about a dead animal] 'this is a Korban Pesach', this is not how people are Makdish, so his words would be void!)
Question (Ravina): Also Version #1 is difficult - Rava taught that R. Shimon holds like R. Yosi, who says that we consider also his final words! (If one said 'This is Temuras Olah Temuras Shelamim', R. Meir says that it is Temuras Olah, like his initial words; R. Yosi says, if he intended for this from the beginning, since a person cannot say two things simultaneously, all his words take effect.)
Suggestion: Just like R. Shimon holds like R. Yosi, R. Yosi holds like R. Shimon!
Answer: No - R. Shimon holds like R. Yosi (we consider all his words), but R. Yosi does not hold like R. Shimon (R. Yosi holds that a person does not say vain words [to Hekdesh] - if one said 'this is for Pesach' about something unfit for Pesach, he was Makdish its value for Korban Pesach).
Question: [They said, we would excommunicate you if you were not Tudus -] was Tudus important, or a brute [whom they feared]?
Answer #1 (Beraisa - Tudus) Question: Why did Chananyah, Misha'el and Azaryah [want to] enter the furnace and give up their lives? (They did not expect that Hash-m would miraculously save them - see note in Appendix. This shows that Tudus was important.)
Answer: They made a Kal va'Chomer from the plague of Tzefarde'im (frogs) - even though they are not commanded about Kidush Hash-m, "U'va'u b'Veisecha uv'Sanurecha uv'Mish'arosecha" (they entered ovens and kneading bowls);
Kneading bowls are near ovens when the ovens are hot, still they entered - we are commanded about Kidush Hash-m, all the more so we should enter!
Answer #2 (R. Yosi bar Avin): He used to provide merchandise for Chachamim [to sell at a profit].
(R. Yochanan): People who provide merchandise for Chachamim merit to sit in the Heavenly Yeshiva - "Ki b'Tzel ha'Chachmah b'Tzel ha'Kasef."
LIGHTING NEROS ON YOM KIPUR
(Mishnah): In a locale where the practice is to light Neros on [Erev] Yom Kipur (so it will be light in the house), we light; where the practice is not to light, we do not;
[In every locale] we light Neros in synagogues, Batei Medrash, dark alleys, and on behalf of the sick.
(Gemara - Beraisa): Both customs are for the same reason [to deter relations. Some places light, for people have relations only in the dark; other places do not light, lest one see his wife and desire her.]
(Rav Yehoshua): "V'Amech Kulam Tzadikim l'Olam Yirshu Aretz" - places that light and places that do not light all intend for the same thing.
(Rav Yehudah): We bless on fire only on Motza'ei Shabbos, for that is when it was created.
An elder, or Rabah bar bar Chanah: Correct - R. Yochanan also said so.
Ula was riding on a donkey; R. Aba was on his right, and Rabah bar bar Chanah was on his left.
R. Aba (to Ula): You [and Rabah bar bar Chanah] say in the name of R. Yochanan that we bless on fire only on Motza'ei Shabbos - surely, this is because that is when it was created!
Ula looked crossly at Rabah bar bar Chanah.
Rabah bar bar Chanah: I cited R. Yochanan regarding something else!
(A rector of Beraisos): R. Shimon ben Elazar says, when Yom Kipur is on Shabbos, even in a place where they do not [normally] light, we light to honor Shabbos.
(R. Yochanan): Chachamim forbid.
Ula: This is what R. Yochanan taught [about Ner Yom Kipur]!
(Rav Yosef): Ula epitomizes "Mayim Amukim Etzah v'Lev Ish" (he disapproved of Rabah's teaching, but kept this in his heart without verbalizing it); Rabah bar bar Chanah epitomizes "v'Ish Tevunah Yidlenah" (he understood Ula's displeasure).