Question: What is this point?

Answer #1 (R. Zakai): (One is Terefah and cannot live if) part of the thigh (and below) is missing.

Answer #2 (R. Yanai): The rectum (and below) is missing.

Answer #3 (R. Yochanan): The navel (and below) is missing.

R. Zakai and R. Yanai argue about whether or not a Terefah can live. (R. Yanai holds that Terefos can live, therefore, even more must be missing.)

R. Yanai and R. Yochanan (agree that a Terefah can live. They) argue about R. Elazar's law;

(R. Elazar): If the thigh and its cavity were removed, it is Nevelah. (R. Yochanan argues with this. He says that it can live unless up to the navel is missing.)

(Rav Papa): They argue only when the bottom is Atum. If any amount is Atum at the top (of the skull), all agree that the mother is Tehorah (not a Yoledes).

(Rav Gidal citing R. Yochanan): If any amount is Atum at the top of the skull, the mother is Tehorah.

(Rav Gidal citing R. Yochanan): If a baby resembles a date tree (the arms and legs branch off from the shoulders), the mother is Tehorah.

Version #1 (R. Yochanan): If a baby's face was Musmasin (slightly mashed) from birth, the mother is Teme'ah (Yoledes).

(Reish Lakish): She is Tehorah.

Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): If a woman miscarried a hand or foot with delineated fingers or toes, she is Teme'ah. We are not concerned lest it came from an Atum body;

According to Reish Lakish, it should say "we are not concerned lest the baby was Atum or that its face was Musmasin"! (Ramban - Musmasin is more common than Atum. Ran - if the baby was Atum, surely the face was Musmasin.)

Version #2 (Rav Papi): R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish agree that if the face was Musmasin, the mother is Teme'ah;

They argue when the face is totally flat. R. Yochanan is Metaher, and Reish Lakish is Metamei.

Question: Reish Lakish should challenge R. Yochanan from the Beraisa. It is concerned only for an Atum baby, but not for a flat face!

Answer: R. Yochanan would answer that a flat face is considered Atum.

R. Chiya's sons: When we went to Karyasa, a baby had been born with a flat face. We told them that the mother is a Yoledes.

R. Chiya: Go retract your ruling!

Perhaps you think that you were stringent (to be Metamei her). Your stringency leads to a leniency (Dam Tohar)!

(Rav): If a woman miscarried a baby with two backs and two spines, it is not a child. If an animal miscarried such a creature, one may not eat it;

(Shmuel): Such a (human) baby is a child. Such an animal is permitted.

They argue about Rav Chanin's law;

(Rav Chanin): "(Es Zeh Lo Sochlu... ) ha'Shesu'ah" is a creature with two backs and two spines.

Rav understands that it is not a species. Rather, it is a mutation. The Torah forbids such a fetus found inside (the womb of) a slaughtered animal. (All the more so, if it was born, it is a Nevelah, and it cannot be slaughtered);

Version #1 (Rashi): Shmuel understands that it is a forbidden species (even though it has the Simanim of Kosher animals);

If a Shesu'ah fetus (or that of any other Tamei animal) is found inside a (Kosher) slaughtered animal, it is permitted.

Question (against Rav and Shmuel - R. Simi bar Chiya - Beraisa - R. Chanina ben Antignos): An animal with two backs and two spines is blemished. (It is Pasul for a Korban.)

It is necessary to teach this only if such animals live! (Rashi - this is difficult also for Shmuel. He forbids eating such animals if they were born.)

Version #2 (R. Tam): Shmuel (agrees that it is not a species. He) says that the Torah forbids it if it was born, but if it is found inside a slaughtered animal, it is permitted.

Question (against Rav - R. Simi - Mishnah - R. Chanina): A Kohen with two backs and two spines is blemished. (He may not do Avodah.)

It is necessary to teach this only if such a child can live! (end of Version #2)

Answer (Rav): The Mishnah discusses a bent back. It merely looks like two backs.

Question (against Shmuel - Beraisa): The following fetuses are forbidden (if they are born, they are Nevelos even when alive) -- a small animal born after four months of pregnancy, and a large animal born after eight months, or less than this. This excludes one with two backs and two spines.

Suggestion: One with two backs is forbidden even if it found inside a slaughtered animal! (The Beraisa is inherently difficult. The Reisha forbids after it is born. The Seifa teaches that a Shesu'ah is different. It should discuss the same case. We cannot simply say that it permits a born Shesu'ah, for the Torah forbids this! We suggested that it forbids it even without birth. However, this is difficult, for the Reisha discusses after birth!)

Rav explains as follows. A fetus of four (or eight) months or less is forbidden if it was born, but it is permitted if found inside a slaughtered animal;

This excludes one with two backs. It is forbidden even if it is found inside a slaughtered animal!

Answer (for Shmuel): A fetus of four (or eight) months or less is forbidden if it was born, because it is premature. Had it has a full term pregnancy, it would be permitted;

This excludes one with two backs. Even if it had a full term pregnancy, it is permitted only if it is found inside a slaughtered animal; but if it was born, it is forbidden.

(A reciter of Beraisos) Suggestion: If a woman miscarried a form in which limbs were not delineated, she should be a Yoledes!

Rejection: "Uva'Yom ha'Shmini Yimol Besar Arlaso" -- Tum'as Yoledes does not apply if the baby is not fit to live for eight days.

Rav: Append to your Beraisa "or if the baby has with two backs and two spines (she is not a Yoledes)."

A case occurred, and R. Yirmeyah bar Aba wanted to rule like Shmuel.

Rav Huna: Do you intend to be stringent? Your stringency leads to a leniency, i.e. Dam Tohar!

Rather, the Halachah follows Rav (against Shmuel) in Isurim (e.g. everything except for monetary laws), whether he is lenient or stringent.

(Rava): A woman can give birth to a viable baby after a pregnancy of nine or seven months. Large animals normally give birth after nine months;

Question (Rava): Can also large animals have viable offspring after seven months?

Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - Beraisa): (... A small animal born after four months, and a large animal born after eight,) or less than this (is a Nefel).

Suggestion: "Less than this" refers to a large animal.

Rejection: No, it refers to a small animal.

Objection: Granted, if it refers to a large animal, one might have thought that just like a human seven month baby can live, also a seven month baby of a large animal;

However, there is no need to say that a small animal born after three months cannot live!

Rejection (and answer to objection): Indeed, this clause discusses a small animal;

One might have thought that any pregnancy two months shorter than usual produces viable offspring, like we find regarding people and large animals. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so.

(Rav Yehudah): If a woman miscarried the form of Lilis (a Shed), she has Tum'as Yoledes. It is a child, just it has wings.

Support (Beraisa - R. Yosi): A case occurred in which a woman miscarried the form of Lilis. Chachamim said that she is a Yoledes.

A woman miscarried the form of a snake. Chanina the nephew of R. Yehoshua ruled that she is a Yoledes.

R. Gamliel heard about this. he told R. Yehoshua to bring Chanina.

Chanina's daughter-in-law came to greet him (R. Yehoshua). She asked about a woman who miscarries the form of a snake.

R. Yehoshua: She is Tehorah.

R. Chanina's daughter-in-law: I heard in your name that she is a Yoledes!

R. Yehoshua: Why did I say that?

His daughter-in-law: It is because a snake's eyes are round, like human eyes.

This reminded R. Yehoshua that he himself had taught this. He told R. Gamliel "Chanina ruled like me."

(Abaye): This teaches that a Chacham should always give reasons for his teachings. When he is reminded, he will remember them.

(Mishnah): If a woman miscarried a Shefir (the outer skin of a fetus before bones form) full of water, blood or different colors, she is not concerned lest there was a child;

If it was Merukam (it has a human form inside), she is Yoledes male or female. (She adopts the stringencies of both.)

If a woman miscarried a Shilya (fetal sac) or Sandal (a fetus that was mashed) she is Yoledes male or female.

(Gemara) Question: Granted, a Shefir full of water or blood is not a child;

However, if it is full of colors, she should be concerned that there was a fetus, and it dissolved!

Answer #1 (Abaye): That would happen only if she drank large amounts of undiluted wine. We are not concerned for this.

Answer #2 (Rava): The Mishnah says, the Shefir was full. Had a fetus dissolved there, the Shefir would not be full.

Answer #3 (Rav Ada bar Ahavah): Had a fetus dissolved there, it would all be one color.

(Beraisa - Aba Sha'ul): I used to bury Mesim. I would look at their bones;

If someone used to drink undiluted wine, or drank more than (is proper for the amount) he ate, his bones would appear burned;

If he drank over-diluted wine, or ate more than (is proper for the amount) he drank, his bones would be black. (Some say that they would be dry, without marrow);

If he drank properly diluted wine, and ate the proper amount (for the amount he drank), his bones would be smooth.

If he drank more than he ate, his bones would appear burned.

If he ate more than he drank, his bones would appear black.

If he eating and drinking was balanced, his bones be smooth.

(Beraisa - Aba Sha'ul): I used to bury Mesim. Once, I saw a deer. I chased after it three Parsa'os (about 12 kilometers) inside a (giant) thigh bone. I did not catch it, and I did not reach the end of the bone. (Maharsha - this is a metaphor for his attempt to escape Tum'ah and attain Kedushah);

People told me that it was a bone of Og, king of Bashan.

(Beraisa - Aba Sha'ul): I used to bury Mesim. Once, the floor of the cave (in which the coffins are inserted) collapsed. I fell into the eyesocket of a Mes. My nose reached the top;

People told me that it was the eyesocket of Avshalom. (Maharsha - this represents the Tum'ah of seeking something not proper for him.)

Suggestion: Perhaps Aba Sha'ul was a midget.

Rejection: Each of the following was the tallest of his generation, and each reached up only to the shoulder of the previous one:

Aba Sha'ul, R. Tarfon, R. Meir, Rebbi, R. Chiya, Rav, Rav Yehudah, and Ada (the servant of Rabanan);

Prashtavina (Rashi - a man's name; Rashbam - an official) of Pumbedisa was half as tall as Ada, and everyone else reached up only to Prashtavina's hips.