12TH CYCLE DEDICATION
NEDARIM 21 - Dedicated In loving memory of Ralph Fram -- Reuven ben Gershom -- by his daughter and son-in-law, Lisa and Avi Scheiner

1)

(a)What does the Yerushalmi mean when it says about Nidrei Ziruzin 'Aval b'Mama'amidin, Tzerichin Heter Chacham'?

(b)Why is this not obvious from the Seifa of the Mishnah 'Sheneihen Rotzin bi'Sheloshah Dinarim'? How might we have otherwise explained that?

(c)And what does the Yerushalmi say about someone who, in the process of selling an article to one of two prospective buyers, makes a Neder which he intends to be a Neder Ziruzin as regards one, but literally, as regards the other?

1)

(a)When the Yerushalmi states about Nidrei Ziruzin 'Aval b'Mama'amidin, Tzerichin Heter Chacham' - it means that, if the two parties subsequently explained that each one meant exactly what he said, and had no intention of compromising, then their Nedarim stand.

(b)This is not obvious from the Seifa of the Mishnah 'Sheneihen Rotzin bi'Shelosah Dinarim' - because we might otherwise have explained it to mean that it was only later that they arrived at the compromise of three Dinarim.

(c)The Yerushalmi also says that - if someone in the process of selling an article to one of two prospective buyers, makes a Neder which he intends to be a Neder Ziruzin regarding one of them, but literally, regarding the other - seeing as the Neder is void with regard to the former, it is void as regards the latter as well.

2)

(a)In the case of our Mishnah, the seller is permitted to accept less than three Dinarim and the buyer more. Why is that?

(b)Is the seller permitted to accept a Shekel or the buyer to pay a Sela?

(c)Does "Lo Yachel Devaro" apply at all, to the four cases in our Mishnah? What does the Tosefta say?

2)

(a)In the case of our Mishnah, the seller is permitted to accept less than three Dinarim - because, since the implication of the Neder is no more than an inducement, the decision not to go below or above three Dinarim remains 'Devarim she'ba'Lev'.

(b)The seller - is not however, permitted to accept a Shekel or the buyer to pay a Sela (since each one's Neder was certainly meant to counter the other's explicit statement). There are those however, who disagree with this.

(c)The Tosefta states - that "Lo Yachel Devaro" does apply to the four cases in our Mishnah, and it is forbidden to declare the Neder with the express intention of contravening it.

3)

(a)On what basis did Rebbi Ami in the name of Rebbi Yehudah Nesi'ah establish the four Nedarim like Rebbi Yehudah Amar Rebbi Tarfon? What did Rebbi Yehudah Amar Rebbi Tarfon say (regarding Nezirus)?

(b)How does Rava refute Rebbi Ami's explanation, based on the Lashon 'Sheneihen Rotzin' (in the present tense)?

(c)According to Rebbi Ami, why does the Tana need to add the clause that they both agreed on the compromise of three Shekalim? What difference does it make how much the buyer eventually paid, seeing as the Neder was already Batel?

3)

(a)Rebbi Ami in the name of Rebbi Yehudah Nesi'ah established the four Nedarim like Rebbi Yehudah Amar Rebbi Tarfon - who holds that at the time when the Nezirus is undertaken, it must be explicit, and not subject to doubt (as we learned earlier). In Rebbi Ami's opinion, the same applies to Nedarim, and is the source for the case of Nidrei Ziruzin, which are made on condition that the other side abide by their initial offer, but not if he retracts.

(b)Rava refutes Rebbi Ami's explanation, based on the Lashon 'Sheneihen Rotzin' (in the present tense) - implying that the Neder is Batel, not because of a lack of clarity, but because both parties initially agreed on three Shekalim. Consequently, the author of our Mishnah might well be the Rabanan of Rebbi Tarfon.

(c)According to Rebbi Ami, the Tana needs to add the clause that they both agreed on the compromise of three Shekalim (despite the fact that the Neder was unclear and should have been Batel anyway) - to teach us that even such a case, where there is no contradiction between the two Nedarim (unlike the case of Nazir of Rebbi Tarfon, where both of the men cannot be Nezirim), and in addition, it is possible for both men to reach a compromise, is included in Rebbi Tarfon's ruling, and is Batel.

4)

(a)Ravina asked Rav Ashi whether it will be considered Nidrei Ziruzin even if the seller stated a price over and above a Sela (e.g. a Sela plus a Perutah), and the buyer a price less than a Shekel (a Shekel minus a Perutah). This might not be included in Nidrei Ziruzin because they entered into such detail. What other reason might there be for precluding it from Nidrei Ziruzin?

(b)What does the Mishnah in Konam Yayin say about someone who countered his friend's efforts to invite him for a meal, with a Neder 'Konam Beischa she'Ani Nichnas, Tipas Tzonan she'Ani To'eim'?

(c)How does Rav Ashi try to resolve Ravina's She'eilah from there?

(d)How do we refute Rav Ashi's proof from there?

4)

(a)Ravina asked Rav Ashi whether it will be considered Nidrei Ziruzin even if the seller stated a price over and above a Sela (e.g. a Sela plus a Perutah), and the buyer a price less than a Shekel (a Shekel minus a Perutah). This might not be included in Nidrei Ziruzin either because they entered into such detail - or because the difference between them is so great (indicating that they really mean what they say.

(b)The Mishnah in Konam Yayin rules that if someone countered his friend's efforts to invite him for a meal with a Neder 'Konam Beischa she'Ani Nichnas, Tipas Tzonan she'Ani To'eim' - it is considered 'Nidrei Ziruzin'.

(c)Rav Ashi tries to resolve Ravina's She'eilah from there - either because the Noder enters into such detail or due to the vast difference between eating a meal on the one hand, and entering his house and tasting a drop of water on the other, yet the Tana considers it Nidrei Ziruzin.

(d)We refute Rav Ashi's proof from there - on the basis of the principle that Tzadikim say little but do a lot. Consequently, when the Noder spoke of not even benefiting the tiniest amount from his friend, he meant it, because he was afraid that otherwise, he may shower him with vast amounts of food and drink, even though he only invited him to come and eat by him. In the case in the Mishnah on the other hand, even if the seller said more than a Sela, and the buyer less than a Shekel, perhaps both had the compromise figure of three Dinarim in mind, in which case, it remains in the category of Nidrei Ziruzin.

5)

(a)How do we rule in this issue, seeing as the She'eilah ends with 'Teiku'?

(b)On which principle is this ruling based?

5)

(a)Seeing as the She'eilah ends with 'Teiku' - we rule l'Chumra (that Ravina's case is not considered Nidrei Ziruzin) ...

(b)... based on the principle 'Sefeika d'Oraisa l'Chumra'.

21b----------------------------------------21b

6)

(a)What did Shmuel retort when Rav Yehudah quoted to him Rav Asi, who said that the four cases of Nidrei Ziruzin all require nullification?

(b)In the second Lashon, Rav Yosef quoted Rav Yehudah Amar Rav Asi as saying that a Chacham is only permitted to annul Nedarim that resemble the four in our Mishnah. What did he mean by that?

(c)What did Rav Huna mean when he asked the man who came to nullify his Neder 'Libech Alach'?

(d)How do we know that Charatah that is not retroactive is not considered Charatah?

6)

(a)When Rav Yehudah quoted to Shmuel, Rav Asi, who said that the four cases of Nidrei Ziruzin all require nullification - Shmuel retorted that the Lashon of the Tana 'Arba'ah Nedarim Hitiru Chachamim' belies this.

(b)In the second Lashon, Rav Yosef quoted Rav Yehudah Amar Rav Asi as saying that a Chacham is only permitted to annul Nedarim that resemble the four in our Mishnah - meaning that one may nullify vows by means of a Pesach, which proves the Neder incorrect (like the four Nedarim, which are automatically incorrect), and not by means of Charatah, which does not.

(c)When Rav Huna asked the man who came to nullify his Neder 'Libech Alach?' - he was asking him whether his mind was lucid when he made the Neder, or whether he still retained his original thought now as when he declared the Neder (meaning that, until now, he wanted the Neder to be effective, and it is only now that he changed his mind).

(d)We know that Charatah that is not retroactive is not considered Charatah - because of the Lashon 'Poschin ba'Charatah'. Why would the Chachamim otherwise need to ask the Noder anything?! Why would the fact that he came to have his Neder annulled not suffice?!

7)

(a)Rabah bar Rav Huna disagrees with his father (and the same Machlokes appears in a Beraisa). He annulled the Neder of a man on the basis of the fact that, had there been ten men to appease him, he would not have made the Neder in the first place. Why does it make no difference whether we conclude 'Poschin ba'Charatah', or 'Ein Poschin ba'Charatah'? Under what category does this case fall?

(b)When Rebbi Asi asked that man who came to him to annul his Neder 'Kadu Tiheyeh', he replied 'Lo', on the basis of which he annulled it. What did ...

1. ... Rebbi Asi mean when he said 'Kadu Tiheyeh'?

2. ... the man mean when he replied 'Lo'?

(c)How do we reconcile Rebbi Asi here, who holds 'Poschin ba'Charatah', with Rav Asi earlier, who, Rav Yehudah maintained, holds 'Ein Poschin ba'Charatah'?

7)

(a)Rabah bar Rav Huna disagrees with his father (and the same Machlokes appears in a Beraisa). He annulled the Neder of a man on the basis of the fact that, had there been ten men to appease him, he would not have made the Neder in the fist place. It make no difference whether we conclude 'Poschin Charatah', or 'Ein Poschin ba'Charatah' - because this case is worse than a Pesach (seeing as now there are not ten men to annul the Neder), and it is appropriate to deduce 'Poschin Charatah' (this kind of Charatah); whereas on the other hand, it is better than ordinary Charatah, seeing as it is based on a fact, and it is appropriate to deduce 'Ein Poschin ba'Charatah' (ordinary Charatah).

(b)When Rebbi Asi asked that man who came to him to annul his Neder 'Kadu Tiheyeh', he replied 'Lo', on the basis of which he annulled it. When ...

1. ... Rebbi Asi said 'Kadu Tiheyeh' - he was asking him whether he was sorry retroactively of having made the Neder.

2. ... the man replied 'Lo' - he was answering rhetorically 'Do you think that I am not?'

(c)We reconcile Rebbi Asi here, who holds 'Poschin ba'Charatah', with Rav Asi earlier, who Rav Yehudah maintained, holds 'Ein Poschin ba'Charatah' - by differentiating between Rebbi Asi (who lived in Eretz Yisrael) and Rav Asi (who lived in Bavel).

8)

(a)What did Rebbi Elazar mean when he asked the man who came to have his Neder annulled 'Bayis Nadur'?

(b)What did the man reply, and what did Rebbi Elazar rule?

(c)On what grounds did Rebbi Yochanan annul the Neder of a certain woman who forbade her daughter by means of a Neder to derive benefit from her?

8)

(a)When Rebbi Elazar asked the man who came to have his Neder annulled 'Bayis Nadur' - he was asking him whether he abided by his Neder until now.

(b)The man replied - that if they had not angered him in the first place, he would not have made the Neder, upon which Rebbi Elazar nullified the Neder.

(c)Rebbi Yochanan annulled the Neder of a certain woman forbidding her daughter to derive any benefit from her - by means of a Pesach that, had she known that her neighbors would conclude that the daughter must have done something terrible to deserve such a reaction from her mother, she would never have made the Neder.

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