Question: Must a son honor his father from his own money?

Answer #1 (Rav Yehudah): Yes.

Answer #2 (R. Nasan bar Oshaya): No, it is only from the father's money.

R. Yirmiyah asked, and was told to follow R. Nasan's opinion.

Question (Beraisa): It says "honor your father and mother", and "honor Hash-m from your wealth." Just like one must spend money to honor Hash-m, also to honor parents.

If honor of parents is from the parents' money, the son gets back whatever money he spends!

Answer: He is not reimbursed for time he spent honoring them and was unable to work.

Question (Beraisa): In the following pairs, either member may redeem Ma'aser Sheni of the other without adding a fifth. Also, either member may feed the other Ma'aser Oni (if the latter is poor):

The pairs are two brothers; two partners; a father and son; and a Rebbi and Talmid.

If the son must spend to honor his father, he may not fulfill his obligation with Ma'aser that belongs to the poor!

Answer: He must use his own (Chulin) money to feed the father the basics. Ma'aser Oni may be used only for extra food (that he need not give).

Question (Beraisa - Rebbi Yehudah): A curse will come upon one who feeds his father Ma'aser Oni!

If the Ma'aser Oni is only for extras, what is wrong with this?

Answer: Still, it is disgraceful.

Question (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): The extent of honoring parents is if the parent throws a wallet in the sea, and the child does not embarrass the parent.

If honor of parents is from the parents' money, (we discuss throwing the father's wallet, or in any case the child will be compensated), why does the child care?! (It is not hard to refrain from embarrassing the parent.)

Answer: The case is, the child is destined to inherit the parent.

Rav Huna tore silk in front of his son Rabah, to see if Rabah would get angry.

Question: How could he do that? If Rabah would get angry, Rav Huna would have transgressed putting a stumbling block before the blind!

Answer: Rav Huna pardoned his honor (so Rabah would not transgress if he got angry).

Question: Rav Huna transgressed wasting money!

Answer: He tore it at the seams, so it did not depreciate.

Question: If so, why would Rabah get angry?

Answer: Rav Huna (looked) angry when he tore it (so Rabah would assume that it was torn destructively).

(Rav Yechezkel - Mishnah - R. Shimon): If people sentenced to be burned became mixed with people sentenced to be stoned, they are stoned, because this is less severe than burning.

(His son Rami): Father, don't teach that way! 'Were mixed with people sentenced to be stoned' connotes that the majority should be stoned. Even if burning were not more severe, they would be stoned!

Rather, teach 'if people sentenced to be stoned became mixed with people standing to be burned (they are stoned, because this is less severe)'.

Question (Rav Yechezkel - Reisha - Chachamim): They are burned, because this is less severe.

Since the majority should be burned, even if burning were not less severe, they would be burned!

Answer (Rami): Chachamim merely come to argue about R. Shimon and say that stoning is more severe. (R. Shimon already taught that we always give the lighter punishment.)

Shmuel (to Rami): You shouldn't speak that way to your father!

(Beraisa): If one sees his father transgress a Torah law he should not say 'father, you transgressed', rather, 'father, this is what the Torah says.'

Objection: That will pain the father!

Correction: Rather, he says 'father, there is a verse in the Torah that says...'

(Beraisa - R. Elazar ben Masya): If my father asks me to serve him, and I have a Mitzvah to do, the Mitzvah takes precedence, because also my father is obligated to do Mitzvos;

Isi ben Yehudah says, if the Mitzvah can be done by others, the son should serve his father.

(Rav Masnah): The Halachah follows Isi.

(R. Yitzchak bar Shilo): A father can pardon the honor due to him. A Rebbi cannot;

(Rav Yosef): Even a Rebbi can pardon his honor - "Hash-m went in front of them (Yisrael) by day (in a cloud)."

Question (Rava): That is not comparable!

Hash-m owns the whole world, so He can pardon His honor;

A Rebbi does not own his Torah!

Answer (Rava): I erred. A Rebbi owns his Torah. It says "in his Torah he will think day and night"!

Question: Rava was serving at a feast in honor of Rava's son's wedding. Rav Papa and Rav Huna Brei d'Rav Yehoshua stood up for Rava, but Rav Mari and Rav Pinchas, sons of Rav Chisda, did not. Rava was upset.

Rava: Do you think that you are Chachamim, but Rav Papa and Rav Huna are not?!

A similar episode occurred in which R. Yitzchak Brei d'Rav Yehudah did not stand for Rav Papa.

Answer: Even if the Rebbi pardons his honor, the Talmid should move a bit to show desire to stand.

(Rav Ashi): Even according to the opinion that a Rebbi can pardon his honor, a Nasi (the leader of the Chachamim) cannot.

Question (Beraisa): When R. Gamliel married off his son, he was serving at the meal. R. Eliezer refused to take from him; R. Yehoshua took from him.

R. Eliezer: How can we sit while R. Gamliel stands and serves us?!

R. Yehoshua: We find someone greater that served. Avraham was the greatest of his generation, and he served his guests!

He did not know that they were angels. He thought they were nomads!

R. Tzadok: Why do you discuss mortals, and neglect Hash-m?!

Hash-m brings winds, raises clouds, makes rain fall, makes vegetation flourish, and sets a table in front of everyone. All the more so, R. Gamliel can serve us!

Correction: Rather, Rav Ashi taught that even according to the opinion that a Nasi can pardon his honor, a king cannot;

"You will put a king upon you" - his fear should be upon you.

(Beraisa) Suggestion: Perhaps "you will rise for an elder" includes even a wicked, unlearned elder!

Rejection: "Zaken" connotes a Chacham - "gather for me 70 men from the Zekenim of Yisrael".

Rebbi Yosi ha'Glili says, "Zaken" denotes one 'she'KaNah' (who acquired) Chachmah - "Hash-m Konani Reishis Darcho."

Suggestion: Perhaps one must rise when the Zaken is far away.

Rejection: "You will rise and honor" - the Mitzvah to rise is only where it will honor him (nearby, where it is evident why he stood).

Suggestion: Perhaps one must give money to the Zaken to honor him!

Rejection: "You will rise and honor" - just like one does not lose money by rising, he need not lose by honoring.

Suggestion: Perhaps one must rise even in the privy or bathhouse!

Rejection: "You will rise and honor" - the Mitzvah to rise is only in a place fit to honor him.

Suggestion: Perhaps one may close his eyes, as if he does not see the Zaken (to avoid having to rise)!

Rejection: "You will rise and you will fear" - for Mitzvos in which others cannot perceive one's intent, it says "you will fear Hash-m (who knows your intention)".

R. Shimon ben Elazar says, "Zaken and you will fear" teaches that a Zaken should not unnecessarily cause that people must rise for him.

Isi ben Yehudah says, "you will rise in front of an elder" refers to any elder.

Question: The first Tana and Rebbi Yosi ha'Glili agree!

Answer: They argue about whether or not one must rise for a young Chacham. Rebbi Yosi ha'Glili obligates doing so.

Question: What is his reason?

Answer: Had the Torah wanted that one must rise only for an old Chacham, it should have written 'in front of an old Zaken, rise and honor';

Rather, it put words between "old" and "Zaken", to teach that one can be "old" without being "Zaken", or vice-versa.

The first Tana holds that if two different people were included, the Torah would have written 'in front of an elder, rise and honor; rise and honor a Zaken';

Rather, the Torah refers to one person (an old Chacham).