Matzos matzos ribba. This drosha seems quite unusual. 1. It is unclear how many times the word matzos is extra. 2. It is unclear which of the words matzos in the pesukim are extra. 3. It is unclear for which cases of matza that this drosha can be used to allow a certain type of matza. Normally the Gemora is clear in what words or letters are extra and we can only learn one drosha per extra word or letter. Do we have a similar style of 'open' drosha elsewhere?
Yisroel Alter Pacanowski, Australia
1) The TZALACH, by the author of Noda beYehuda, asks here, 36b DH Yachol She-Ani Motzi, that how can the Gemara 36b include Matzos of Ma'aser Sheni from "Matzos Matzos Ribah"; surely "Matzos Matzos" is not at all superfluous because above 35b the Gemara used "Matzos Matzos" to teach that Cohanim can do the Mitzvah with Matzos of Chalah and Terumah?!
2) The Torah Temimah on Shemos 12:20, on the verse "you shall eat Matzos" #183, answers that the idea of the drosho "Matzos Matzos" is that it says many times in the Torah "you shall eat Matzos" but it only says one time "bread of affliction". Therefore only one thing is excluded from "Lechem Oni" whilst many things are included from the word "Matzos" which incorporates many kinds of Matzos.
3) According to this, Matzos Matzos does indeed seem to be an unusual drosha because it is a general drosha from the fact that the Torah mentions Matzos so many times. The words of the Torah Temimah are
????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???
Kol Tuv
Dovid Bloom
Follow-up reply:
1) I was thinking that possibly the drosha of ???? ???? ????? may be a similar open drosha like Matzos Matzos Ribah. See Tosfos Sukah 27b DH Kol who asks, according to Rabbi Eliezer that one requires she'Lachem for Sukah, how do we know that 2 people can sit together in a Sukah? Tosfos answers that possibly there is a Ribui of Teshvu k'Ein Taduru to teach that 2 people can be yotzei with the same sukah, since it is the normal thing all year round that more than one person lives in each house.
2) Now, we learn a lot of Halachos from Teshvu k'Ein Taduru. The Gemara Sukah top 28b has a hava amina to say from Teishvu k'Ein Taduru that ladies are obliged to live in the sukah. We also learn that one is exempt from sukah when it is raining from Teshvu k'Ein Taduru, as well as several other Halachos. How can we derive so many Halachos from one drosha?! Possibly the answer is that Teshvu k'Ein Taduru is a general drosha, since the Torah states a few times that there is a Mitzvah to dwell in a Sukah.
Behatzlochah Rabah
Dovid Bloom
Additional note:
1) I should just point that it seems there is only one verse in the Torah that states about dwelling in Sukos. This is in Vayikra 23:42. But the point is that it says ????? ???? and then repeats itself and says Yeshvu ba'Sukkos. The fact that the Torah repeats the idea of Yeshiva seems to be the source of the many droshos in the Gemara of Teshvu k'Ein Taduru.
2) One could have argued that Teshvu k'Ein Taduru is not in fact a Ribui, but rather a simple understanding of the verse; that when the Torah says we should dwell in Sukos this means we do so in the same way as we dwell in our house all year round. However Tosfos 27b, that I cited above, writes Marbi mid'Ksviv Teshvu k'Ein Taduru and the word Marbi indicates a Ribui. In addition, I found that Har Tzvi Sukah 41b page 150 DH veHineh beTosfos wrote that according to Tosfos, "Teshvu" is a special Ribui. Therefore we can argue that Teshvu k'Ein Taduru is a general Ribui, in a similar way to what the Torah Temimah writes that Matzos Matzos is a special general Ribui.
Dovid Bloom