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4. Yisrael Mumar 5. last hebrew chart for daf 18b 6. Tosfos DH Ka'n
7. Gira'on Of An Amah Ivriya 8. Yi'ud And Bereirah 9. Selling Slave for Stealing
10. Amah Ivriah 11. הלכה כאביי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 18

Avrahom asks:

An Amah doesn't go free with the death of her father. The Gemara established that.

Now if while alive he was myaed her to his son while she's a ketanah. Her father dies, and then the Adon assuming that Yiud is Eirusin (This question applies to many ketanos).

1. Does the Amah as a ketanah being that the koneh gave her to his son and she's is "eirusin" stage ...does she now fall into Miun regarding the koneh's son. If the koneh is alive- would that guarantee her freedom if she can do miun. If she isn't but her father dies before Yiud. Then regardless of the Koneh or the Koneh's son does Miun apply?

2. A ketanah was mekudash by her father, in 12-18 months she'll still be a ketanah. Before chuppah the father dies. Can she do miun since the father was alive for stage one but died before Chuppah.

3. According to Rav Chisdah that it's a shtar mocher... All the mephorshim who say the keseph kinyan becomes keseph kiddushin, what if her mechirah was via shtar... how can Yiud take place with a shtar mecher?

Avrahom , United States

The Kollel replies:

Very fascinating questions!

1)Any Yiud before the Father dies would be Kidushin D'Oraisa, and therefore not eligible for Miun. If the father dies before Yiud, it depends: according to the opinion that the first money was not given for Kidushin she can make Yiud without the father being alive as this is a special Gzeiras Hakasuv that Yiud works without the father (see Rashi 18b D"H Hocho) If the first money was given for Yiud, it would seem the the father arranged the marriage and there is only a technical requirement to notify her, I have no proof for this point and I have asked the other Rabonim in the Kollel for their input on this point. If it is not so, you assume that Yiud would cause a Kidushin D'Rabonan that would be susceptible to Miun, but I am not convinced that there is such a thing as Yiud D'Rabonan.

2) No. The Kidushin is D'Oraisah and she is not eligible for Miun

3)The Adon thereby waives his right to her work' and that is essentially a Nesinas Shave Prutah.

A Ksiva v'Chasima Tova

Shimon Brodie