Hello kollel!
I had a few questions on r akiva's approach to flying objects.if I throw something from a private domain to another private domain over a public one r akiva seems to say this is hotzaah bc the object is considered to be continuously coming to rest while in the airspace.
Few questions
1) can you explain the logic of treating a moving object as at rest? hasn't r akiva uprooted the whole concept for hanacha? I'm struggling to understand how there would even be an idea of carrying four amot in public if the object is always considered at rest? Unless this is only when you're above 10 tefachim and not being controlled by a person?
2) does r akiva always ignore airspace in this regard? For example would he say a kohen jumping in the air in the beis hamikdash is actually halachicly in contact with the ground and the avoda is valid?
3) derech agav, a friend asked me why playing golf on shabbos isn't allowed, beyond just not being shabbos dik. I'd always assumed it was because of the chunks of earth (divots) that the golfer generates when hitting the ball which is like plowing. But here id think if there's no eruv there's also hotzaah bc there's a ball that starts on the ground, flies above 10 tefachim after being hit then comes to rest?
3a) does the aveira/melacha change since it's done with a kli (the club) and not by hand?
3b) would the person be chayav for more than one aveirah since the same action causes the divot/plowing and the hotzaah, or is it "ain issur chal Al haissur"?
Thank you!
Josh
To understand Rebbi Akiva's concept, here is a short introduction:
There is a Machlokes between Rashi and Tosfos: Rashi seems to maintain that when the object is "resting" in the air, it is as if the object is resting on the ground under it. When the flying object is higher than ten Tefachim, Rashi explains that it is in a "non-place" and therefore we do not say it is resting on the Reshus ha'Rabim ground underneath. Tosfos says that the concept is that if the object is in the airspace of the Reshus, it is as if it is "resting" in that Reshus. When it is higher than ten Tefachim, it is in a Mekom Petur, so it is not resting in Reshus ha'Rabim.
1) The Rishonim ask your question. The answers they give don't really shed light on the whole concept. The Rashba brings three answers: First, he cites the Tosfos Yeshanim who says that the concept of Kelutah k'Mi she'Hunchah is only said l'Chumra. Therefore, when throwing in Reshus ha'Rabim, the outcome will be that he is Patur, so the concept does not apply.
Another answer the Rashba brings is that we say Kelutah k'Mi she'Hunchah only when the object changes Reshus. In the same Reshus we do not say this concept. The Rashba does not explain why. He adds that perhaps it is a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai that throwing in Reshus ha'Rabim is Chayav.
2) We find Rebbi Akiva's concept in a few places. Two examples are: (a) when throwing a Get to a woman, she is considered Megureshes once the Get is thrown over her property; (b) in the laws of Tum'ah v'Taharah, If Tum'ah was over a oven, it is considered as though it is inside the oven.
When exactly do we utilize this concept is a good question, but it is clear that in cases where we need physical contact with the floor (such as when the Kohanim perform the Avodah in the Beis ha'Mikdash), it is not enough to consider the Kohen as grounded. We need physical contact with the floor. In cases that the object needs to have the status as being in a certain Reshus, it can be considered as being in a Reshus, but not as touching the Reshus.
3) As for as golfing, I don't have too much experience so I do not know about the plowing aspect. Is this something that always happens and is a Pesik Reisha, and if not, does the player want this to happen, or does it happen without any intention and it is a Davar she'Eino Miskaven?
4) As far as the Hotza'ah aspect is concerned, I assume that a golf course is not a Reshus ha'Rabim but rather a Karmelis, so even if it would be Hotza'ah, it is Hotza'ah mid'Rabanan. If it was Reshus ha'Rabim, the fact the ball goes over ten Tefachim and flies through a Mekom Petur makes no difference, as mentioned in the Gemara (6a). As for the fact that he is hitting the ball with a club, I cannot think of a source right now, but it seems that since this is the Derech to do so, and it is the normal way to shoot the ball through the air, it is considered a Melachah.
The rule of Ein Isur Chal Al Isur is only in a case where there is one Isur already on the object, and at the same time another Isur comes up. If both Isurim happen to start at the same time, besides some exceptions, the person can transgress two Aveiros. In this case it is even more simple, since by the time the ball is in the air, the plowing is over in any case.
Aharon Steiner
Thank you very much for this.
To change the question slightly on the kohen in the beis hamikdash, do they need to be in contact with the floor or do they just not need to have anything intervening? I seem to remember a case in the gemara dealing with a kohen who is somehow suspended in the air...
I looked again into the Sugya of a Kohen preforming an Avodah in the air, and I think I was not precise in my answer.
The Gemara in Zevachim (24a) teaches that a Kohen cannot be stepping on someone or something else when he performs the Avodah. On Daf 26a, the Gemara goes back and forth about a Kohen in the air. It seems from the Gemara that the airspace of the Azarah is in question -- is it like standing on the floor or not -- because perhaps the Kedushah of the Azarah is the whole space of it, and standing on the walls, in the air, or theoretically on the ceiling of the Azarah are all fine -- not because he is considered to be grounded, but because he is still standing on or in the Azarah. In contrast, standing on a chair is considered standing on or in something other than the Azarah.
I think this explanation may be understood from the Chazon Ish (Kodashim Kama 31) and the Brisker Rav (Zevachim 26).
So, the question there is not like Rebbi Akiva, if being in the airspace of a Reshus is considered as grounded in that Reshus, but rather if the airspace is holy like the floor, or only the floor is holy as far as standing in the Azarah is concerned.
I hope this makes things a bit clearer!
Aharon Steiner