More Discussions for this daf
1. Abaye and the Cycle of Torah Reading 2. Rashi's acronym 3. uv'Roshei Chodsheichem
4. 30B Rashi 5. Leining on a Ta'anis When There Aren't 6 Fasters 6. Leining For Chol Ha'Moed Sukos
7. Seder Parashiyos Hu Chozer 8. Tes Zayin 9. רש"י ד"ה מילי דמתא
10. כשחל בשבת 11. פרשת זכור
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MEGILAH 30

Moshe Deutsch asks:

Why do we lein parshas hatomid on rosh chodesh ? Couldnt we just lein vroshei chodsheichem 4 times like we do chol hamoed sukkos in EY?

moshe deutsch

The Kollel replies:

Your question is asked by Rav Efraim Greenblatt shlit'a, formerly of Memphis, Tennessee and now in Har Nof, Yerushalayim, in his Sefer, Teshuvas Rivevos Efraim (4:416).

1. He cites the Taz in the name of the Ran who says that the entire Parshas ha'Korbanos in Bamidbar, chapter 28 (which includes the Parshah of Rosh Chodesh, see verses 11-15) is Parshas ha'Tamid. On Rosh Chodesh, it is also the Seder ha'Yom (the order of the day) to say Parshas ha'Tamid because we also offer the Tamid on Rosh Chodesh.

(Even though verses 9 and 10, which refer to the Korban of Shabbos, are not relevant to Rosh Chodesh, one may say that those verses are "Tafel" to the reading of Tamid and Rosh Chodesh. The latter represent 13 verses, so the 2 verses connected with Shabbos, which come between Tamid and Rosh Chodesh, are incidental to the main verses.)

2. In contrast, on Sukos the readings of a different day of Chol ha'Mo'ed are not relevant on this day. For instance, on the third day of Chol ha'Mo'ed in Eretz Yisrael, which is the fourth day of the Chag, there is no relevance in reading the Korbanos of the third day of the Chag. This is why we read the Korbanos of Day 4 four times, as no other reading is appropriate on that day.

3. The above idea may be further understood based on what the Chafetz Chaim writes in Sha'arei Tziyun (OC 284:12) in the name of the Pri Megadim: when reading the Torah, we re-read verses that were already read only when there is no other option (for example, on Chol ha'Mo'ed Sukos). We see from there that whenever possible, we try not to repeat verses in Keri'as ha'Torah.

We can now better understand why we prefer on Rosh Chodesh not to say the same verses 4 times, since there is an alternative way of arranging the reading.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

Moshe Deutsch asks further:

I dont understand what you mean by this phrase the entire Parshas ha'Korbanos in Bamidbar, chapter 28 (which includes the Parshah of Rosh Chodesh, see verses 11-15) is Parshas ha'Tamid.

The Kollel replies:

Reb Moshe, you are right, I did not explain this point properly.

1. First, let us look at the Ran that I cited above. The Ran in Megilah (12b of the pages of the Rif, DH Gemara) asks, why do we not solve the problem of the shortage of verses in the Rosh Chodesh reading simply by starting before Bamidbar 28:1 (which is where the Korban Tamid starts), or simply continue the reading after 28:15 (which is where the Korbanos of Rosh Chodesh end)?

2. The Ran answers that these are not options because we must read on Rosh Chodesh only the "Sidro Shel Yom," the "order of the day." The Ran proceeds to explain why all of 28:1-15 is considered the order of the day on Rosh Chodesh. He writes that the Korban Tamid is the order of the day on Rosh Chodesh because on Rosh Chodesh the Korban Tamid is also offered. He then writes that the Korbanos of Shabbos are also relevant to Rosh Chodesh because sometimes Rosh Chodesh falls on Shabbos. The Ran concludes that the Parshiyos of Tamid, Shabbos, and obviously that of Rosh Chodesh itself are all fitting to be read on Rosh Chodesh. In contrast, the verses before 28:1 or from 28:16 onwards have no connection to Rosh Chodesh.

3. Accordingly, what I wrote in the first reply -- that the entire Parshas ha'Korbanos is Parshas ha'Tamid -- was not accurate, and I should have written that the entire Parshas ha'Korbanos (28:1-15) that we read on Rosh Chodesh is relevant to Rosh Chodesh. Thank you for not letting that mistake slip by!

Nevertheless, the general thrust of my reply remains valid -- that reading the Korbanos of a different day of Chol ha'Mo'ed on Sukos has no relevance and is worse than the Rosh Chodesh reading, where all of the Korbanos have at least some relevance to Rosh Chodesh.

4. While we are on the topic of emendations, I am afraid I have to make a couple more. I hinted in my last reply that the two verses relating to the Shabbos Korbanos -- even though they are not actually relevant to Rosh Chodesh -- are nevertheless acceptable because they are only two verses in the middle of 13 others and are incidental to the majority. However, we now have a better answer in the name of the Ran, namely that the verses of Shabbos are also relevant to Rosh Chodesh because Rosh Chodesh sometimes falls on Shabbos.

5. Finally, I must correct the Rivevos Efraim reference, which should read 5:416 instead of 4:416.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

Meir Eliezer Bergman asks:

A kashe on this would be the reading on Chol HaMoed Sukkos in Chutz Lo'oretz, where on the third day of Chol ha'Mo'ed we read Uvayom Hashlishi, Uvayom HaRvi'i, Uvayom Hachamishi, and then (for 4th Aliya) Uvayom Hashlishi and Uvayom Harvi'i. Aliyos 1, 2 and 4 are understandable, but the 3rd aliya reads Uvayom Hachamishi which is not part of the Sfeika D'Yoma.

Meir Eliezer Bergman

Manchester UK

The Kollel replies:

Reb Meir, this is a very good point!

1. Actually, the Sukos Chol ha'Mo'ed reading in Chutz la'Aretz is subject to a Machlokes between Rashi and Tosfos in Sukah 55a. The Minhag Ashkenaz that you mention is the opinion of Rashi (end of 55a) in the name of his teachers. However, Tosfos (DH Askin) writes that the proper Minhag is that only the reading which is relevant to the day should be read. Therefore, on the first day of Chol ha'Mo'ed the Kohen Aliyah is the verses of the second day and the Levi Aliyah is the verses of the third day. The third Aliyah goes back and reads "b'Yom ha'Sheni," and the fourth Aliyah reads "b'Yom ha'Shelishi."

2. However, the Rema (Shulchan Aruch OC 663:1) rules like Rashi in the name of his teachers, and thus we still need to explain the difference between the logic behind the Keri'as ha'Torah in Eretz Yisrael on Chol ha'Mo'ed Sukos and the logic behind the Keri'as ha'Torah in Chutz la'Aretz.

3. I would like to suggest a Chidush to explain the different Minhagim. The source for the Minhag of Eretz Yisrael in this matter is the Beis Yosef (OC 663 DH uv'Eretz, and as he writes in the Shulchan Aruch OC 663:1). The Beis Yosef does not cite a source in the Rishonim for this; it his own opinion. However, the Minhag was not always like this in Eretz Yisrael. See the Teshuvos Maharalbach #49 (written by a contemporary of the Beis Yosef) who testifies that in his times the Minhag in Yerushalayim was that on the third day of Sukos, the Kohen would read "b'Yom ha'Sheni," the Levi would read "b'Yom ha'Shelishi," the third Aliyah would read "b'Yom ha'Sheni" and the fourth would read "b'Yom ha'Shelishi." However, the Minhag in Tzefat then was like the present-day Minhag in Eretz Yisrael.

4. I propose that the Beis Yosef is consistent with his opinion in the Shulchan Aruch OC 282:2 where he writes, "It is permitted to call up many people to the Torah. Even though one reads what the other has already read, he may still make another Berachah and there is no problem with this." However, the Rema there writes that some authorities prohibit this practice and the custom in the Ashkenazi countries follows the stringent opinions, apart from on Simchas Torah.

5. Now I want to suggest that the opinion of the Beis Yosef and of the Rema concerning the reading on Chol ha'Mo'ed Sukos might be consistent with their respective views in OC 282:2. Since the Rema wants to limit re-reading the same verses wherever possible, he prefers to have the third Aliyah read the verses of the following day. The Parshah of the following day is not totally irrelevant to the present day, because it is from the same Yom Tov. In contrast, the Beis Yosef -- who in OC 282:2 has no problem with repeating verses -- maintains that on Chol ha'Mo'ed in Eretz Yisrael one should say the Parshah of the relevant day four times over.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom