More Discussions for this daf
1. Status of Kelim used for the Efer ha'Parah 2. How similar must the 'Gezeirah' be by a 'Ma'aseh she'Hayah'? 3. Story of Boat with Tum'as Meis crossing the Jordan
4. רבי חנניה בן עקביא היא 5. אלא מעתה לא יטמא אדם
DAF DISCUSSIONS - CHAGIGAH 23

alex lebovits asked:

The Gem. compares 2 'Maaseh Shehayas', the first case by 'kodesh' and the second case by 'mey chatas' and says that acc. to R'Chananya ben Akavyah the Rabanan made a 'Takanah' to prohibit only exactly similar situations. And our Mishna goes acc. to him.

But are the cases really comparable? The case of 'Kodesh' talks about the item that was carried (and therefore only 'kodesh' was not allowed), while the case of 'mey chatas' the 'Gezerah' was about the way it was carried (and therefore only boat and Yarden were dissallowed!

1. Would then R' Chanayah allow a person to carry a 'medras' on a boat with 'Kodesh' because its not similar to the 'Maaseh Sheyayah'?!

2. What is his reason that 'Mey Chatas' was only not allowed on the 'Yarden River' versus any other river, even if the 'Maaseh Shehaya' happened on the Yarden River?

Kol Tuv

alex lebovits, toronto, canada

The Kollel replies:

1) The Chazon Ish (OC 129) makes a key point regarding our Sugya. The fact that the Rabanan only saw fit to make the Gezeirah following a Ma'aseh she'Hayah indicates that there was no real apprehension that people would be negligent with Kodesh or Mei Chatas, and hence no real need for a Gezeirah, but that the Rabanan decided to forbid acts similar to those that caused the Tuma'ah (perhaps as a reminder to take care). The Ma'aseh she'Hayah involving Mei Chatas happened in unusual and specific circumstances, involving a boat on a river. Therefore, Rebbi Chananyah Ben Akavya was of the opinion that the Rabanan only outlawed cases similar to this. However, since the Ma'aseh she'Hayah of Kodesh did not take place in unusual or specific circumstances the Rabanan did not limit the Gezeirah of Kodesh to any specific circumstance.

2) I believe that the answer to this lies in the point of the Chazon Ish. Since the Rabanan only outlawed cases similar to the ones that occurred, there is disagreement between Rebbi Chananyah Ben Akavya and the Rabanan (of his time) as to whether the Rabanan who made the Gezeirah outlawed all rivers, or only the river on which the original story took place. Rebbi Chananyah Ben Akavya was of the opinion that since there was no real need to outlaw taking Mei Chatas on a boat, the Rabanan only outlawed an act that is exactly identical to the Ma'aseh she'Hayah.

Dov Freedman