More Discussions for this daf
1. mishelo o mishel shamaim 2. Gedolim and Ketanim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA METZIA 92

Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander asked:

Dear Rabbi Kornfeld,

The Mishna on DAF 93A - which is explained on 92B - related to children who are 'Gedolim' and 'Ketanim'. Apparently these children are of the age at which it is encumbent on the father to feed them. This would mean that the 'Gedolim' are six years of age. This contention is supported by various rulings in which children of six are expected to fend - economically - for themselves. Certainly in an agricultural society where children of five are already experienced shepards - as we see with beduin children - this is reasonable. If 'Gedolim' are six years of age - how old are the 'Ketanim'? Probably under the age of five!

This interpretation may be considered to be supported by the comparison in the Mishna of the 'Ketanim' to animals: 'because they have no understanding' which may mean that you cannot instruct them not to eat: that is an instruction they cannot understand - so with children this would mean - depending on the child - between three and five, normally.

On the other hand we are accustomed to differentiate between 'Gedolim' and 'Ketanim' by the age of puberty. Would therefor there be a difference between male children and female children? From the Mishna it would seem so, since the Mishna relates specifically to 'the sons and the daughters'!

Are there rulings of the Geonim on the issue of the age of the 'Gedolim'?

Thank you,

Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander

The Kollel replies:

I am not familiar with the rulings of the Gaonim, but I did not see any mention of a special status of "Gedolim" and "Ketanim" resembling your explanation in the commentaries on the Mishnah or Gemara, or in the regularly used codifiers (Rambam, Shulchan Aruch, Aruch Hashulchan). "Because they have no knowledge" is a fairly common way of differentiating between Gedolim of Bar Mitzvah age versus Ketanim. This difference also plays a part in their ability to be "Mochel" -- "forgo" the food benefit (see Rashi 93a, DH "Hachi Garsinan").

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose