More Discussions for this daf
1. Rebbi Yishma'el's Accident 2. Melachah Sh'einah Tzericha l'Gufa, by a Zav's pouch 3. Asking for Forgiveness on Shabbos
4. Did Yosef Have to be Taught Lashon Arami by the Angel? 5. Gezeirah l'Gezeirah 6. Killing a Bug on Shabbos
7. Visiting the Sick 8. Going out with an object on Erev Shabbos 9. Covering one's head with the Talis
10. The angels and prayer 11. Girsa in Ba'meh Madlikin 12. Killing a louse on Shabbos
13. Praying for a sick person on Shabbos 14. Tefilin 15. Aramaic
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 12

Harry Stark asked:

Is there an halachic issue regarding asking for forgiveness on Shabbos? Furthermore, is there a differentiation between asking people vs. Hash-m for forgiveness on Shabbos?

Where would I find in the Gemara discussions on this topic.

Thank you and Shanah Tovah,

Harry Stark, Los Angeles, USA

The Kollel replies:

I don't believe you will find a Gemara that directly discusses your question. In fact, the whole issue of making requests in our Tefilos on Shabbos, which is brought down explicitly in the Poskim, is not stated explicitly anywhere in the Talmud Bavli. That being said, I did come up with the following sources that have a bearing on your question.

The Gemara in Shabbos 12b says that when one visits the sick on Shabbos he should not say the standard Berochah of "Refuah Shleimah" but rather should change it to "Shabbos Hee m'Lizok u'Refu'ah Kerovah Lavo". The RA"N explains the reason as follows: that asking - on Shabbos - for mercy from Hash-m to be healed will arouse sadness in the supplicant and cause him to feel anguish which is against the spirit of the day. The question is: does asking forgiveness cause us to feel sadness and anguish?

Asking for forgiveness from Hash-m is a part of the Teshuvah process. The Rambam in the laws of Teshuvah (2:4) states that part of the Teshuvah process is to cry and cry out to Hash-m for forgiveness. It would seem then that asking for forgiveness from Hash-m on Shabbos would be problematic because it should. Nonetheless, the Mishnah in Pirkei Avos (2:10) says "Do Teshuvah one day before your death etc." which according to the Gemara means that one has to do Teshuvah every day of his life since he doesn't know the day of his death. None of the Mefarshim, to my knowledge, point out that the exception to the rule is Shabbos. It could be that since Teshuva is a Mitzvah it overrides the consideration of causing oneself anguish on Shabbos.

When it comes to asking another person for forgiveness it could be different. The Gemara in Eruvin 36b says that one may construct an Eruv in order to visit the non-Jewish ruler on Shabbos. Rashi explains that the person constructing the Eruv wants to visit the ruler l'Fayes v'Litz'ok - to mollify and beseech. This would seem to include asking forgiveness. Perhaps, this is exceptional because the Jew is doing this on behalf of the community and it is considered Tzorchei Tzibur which may override certain considerations. Or perhaps it is permissible because it doesn't generate a genuine emotional state of anguish; it is just being done superficially to spare oneself the retribution of the ruler.

I hope these sources are helpful.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan Sigler

This is not a Psak Halachah

Meir Eliezer Bergman adds:

A couple of thoughts that occurred to me, to throw into the discussion:

1) I suspect that there is a difference between saying viduy (confession) and more general Teshuva. In Hilchos Rosh Hashana we learn that we don't say viduy on Rosh Hashana, as it is a Yom Tov (and references to "Chotono" in Avinu Malkeinu have to interpreted accordingly). However one may resolve to improve etc.

2) On Shabbos if a person started davenning weekday Shmonei Esrei and then realises, he should finish the brocho he is in, before switching to the Shabbos Shmonei Esrei. What about the brocho of Selach Lonu, which asks for forgiveness but contains a viduy "Ki Chotonu"? - if someone said the word "Selach" and then realised, it seems he should continue, even though he will be asking for forgiveness and saying viduy (although not for specific aveiros).

Meir Eliezer Bergman Manchester UK

Yitzchok Zirkind adds:

See what the Mishnah Berurah writes in OC 288:22, citing from the Magen Avraham.

See also his words in OC 188:9 (this answers the question about making a mistake in Shemoneh Esreh).

Yitzchok Zirkind