More Discussions for this daf
1. 11 makes a quorum 2. Tosfos About Tana'im and Amora'im 3. Berachos of the 7 Berachos
4. Rashi's statement 5. ha'Omer Davr be'Shem Omro 6. Panim Chadoshos
7. Resh Lakish knew what he meant 8. רש״י ד״ה חדא יצירה הואי 9. משמח חתן וכלה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KESUVOS 8

Alan Isaac Harari asked:

it is a mahloket between Levi and Rav Assin considering birkat chatanim. Levi did 5 blessings and Rav Assin did 6 blessings. Rashi explains which five blessings Levi made it. And then Rashi explains 6 blessings that Rav Assi did it (menaing that includes Iotzer Haadam). Assuming that both maademar agree that besides that they gonna make hagefen, what is really Rashi trying to explain by doing 6 blessing? Wouldn't this be obvious? What is the chidush that Rashi is trying to bring explaining the Six blessings?

Alan Isaac Harari, New York, USA

The Kollel replies:

The Chidush of Rashi is which blessing is the subject of a dispute between Levi and Rav Asi. Rashi states that it is "Yotzer ha'Adam" for which the dispute applies, while one sees from Rashi DH Barich Chameish that everyone agrees that one says the blessing "Asher Yatzar".

The Shitah Mekubetzes explains that the reason Rashi writes that the dispute only concerns Yotzer Ha'Adam is because Rashi is consistent with his opinion (above 7b DH Mai and 8a DH Sameach) that the blessings which are directly connected with the couple getting married only start from Asher Yatzar and onwards, while "Shehakol Bara Lichvodo" and "Yotzer Ha'Adam" do not relate to the couple, but rather to the original creation of the first Adam before there was a female. Therefore Levi maintained that one does not say Yotzer ha'Adam because it is not connected to the couple.

Kesivah v'Chasimah Tovah

D. Bloom

P.S. This question was especially interesting for me because my son is getting married, BS'D, in a couple of weeks time!!

Alan Isaac Harari responded:

Rabbi Bloom,

Thanks for the answer. Sucess in the marriage of you son. May he be zoche to build a bayat neeman be Israel Amen.

The question still remains. My problem is that the first Rashi explains barich chamesh and give us which are the blessings. So it seems completly unecessary to Rashi tell us berich shit will include the berecha Iotze Haadam. Because that we would now already, sice we agree that both of them will do hagefen as well. So the question is: which chidush (or what is the need) for Rashi to tell us berich shit includes iotzer haadam)?

Shabat shalom umevorach ve tizku leshanim rabot neimot vetovot!

Alan

The kollel replies:

Thank you very much for your kind wishes on the marriage of my son. May you have lots of simchot in your family too.

(1) Firstly I would like to make a brief comment about borei pri hagafen. Rashi 8a DH Sameach compares this to the blessing on spices and the candle on Motzaei Shabat that one makes together with a cup of wine, and the same applies to the Sheva Berachot. However the Rambam Hilchot Ishut 3:24 writes that it is merely a custom to say the Berachot of Erusin on a cup of wine and Magid Mishneh writes that it is obvious that the cup of wine is only a custom. In addition Rambam Ishut 10:4 writes that a cup of wine is only required for the Berachot of Nisuin if one is available, and Magid Mishneh similarly writes there that it is obvious that if there is no wine at hand this does not prevent one saying the blessings.

In summary even though Rashi does write that one takes a cup of wine and the present-day custom certainly follows this, nevertheless it is not clear that according to the strict Halacha this is absolutely essential.

(2) Concerning whether 5 or 6 other blessings were said - the point is that in the Sheva Berachot which we say nowadays (which conform to the practice of Rav Asi who made 6 blessings apart from borei pri hagafen) there are 2 blessings which both relate to the creation of Man. The first is Yotzer HaAdam which refers to the original creation of Adam and Chava, and the second is Asher Yatzar which refers to the creation , not of the first man and woman, but of the couple who are now getting married. Since Yotzer HaAdam does not refer to the couple now getting married, Levi maintained that one does not say it. However Rav Asi maintained that one says this blessing as well because it does refer to the original creation. Therefore when Rashi says that the 6th blessing that Rav Asi added was Yotzer HaAdam, this is because it is less obvious that one says this blessing, which is why Levi did not say it, because he maintained that one fulfils one's obligation of mention the creation, by merely saying Asher Yatzar.

Kol Tuv

Dovid Bloom

Additional reply:

Here is an alternative explanation why Rashi writes that Rav Assi added the beracah Yotzer HaAdam and not Asher Yatzar. This is simply because Yotzer HaAdam is shorter. It is logical that the dispute between Levi and Rav Assi concerned a shorter blessing, not the more major blessing of Asher Yatzar.

Shana Tovah

D. Bloom