The Gemara says that "Ein Berachah Metzuyah Ela b'Davar ha'Samuy Min ha'Ayin" -- "blessing is found only in an item which is hidden from the eye" (i.e. it has not been counted,). And even more than that; the Rabanan were actually mesaken a Tefillah for somebody who is going into his silo to count how much grain he had gathered there.
I would like to ask you from a Gem. in Berochos 54a where if a man's wife was expecting a child and the husband is mispallel that the child should be a boy, the Gem calls this a Tefillas Shav! Even though this is also a "davar hasamuy min ha'ayin"! Why then in our Gem. is this "yehi rotzon' not considered a Tefilas Shav?!
I would like to discount an answer that might be given, that in our Gem. the 'Yehi Rotzon' is not a bakasha for an increase in quantity but rather that the tevuah should not spoil; by pointing out that rashi says that the quantity was not known; indicating that the quantity is what the bracha will affect and not the quality.
Thank you for considering my question
alex lebovits, toronto, canada
The Gemara in Berachos (60a) says that after forty days, Davening for a boy is a Tefilas Shav, because that would require a change in the type of gender, not just a change in quantity. I'm sure that if someone has a pile of grain and Davens that he should have a pile of steak, it would also be considered a Tefilas Shav (unless he was a Tzadik of outstanding proportions).
Kol Tuv,
Yaakov Montrose
Reb Yaakov thank you for answering.
Your 'grain to steak' example is not entirely comparable. We know that he gathered grain into the silo and therefore as far changing it to steak, this is not a case of 'samuy min ha'ayin'.
Furthermore-
1) If someone inherited a bag of unseen coins; say 122 pieces; isn't it just as big a nes to change the coins to 200 as it would be to change the coins from silver to gold?
2) If changing the quantity is not a problem; then in the case of davening for a boy; couldn't his tefillah be answered by his wife having twins?!
Thank you for your patience.
Alex Lebovits
I understand that the gathered grain to steak Mashal is not entirely comparable, but the main point is still valid. Our Gemara, one must admit, is quite a Chidush as it is. We have no basis to presume from our Gemara that one can enact a change in type as well as a change in quantity.
1) Additionally, our Gemara's case is specifically when the grain is apparent and the amount is not. Grain in a silo (I'm almost certain) is something whose size is easily affected by the elements, and a logical reason can probably be produced for grain becoming bigger and smaller due to the elements. This is a very small Nes compared to changing a type entirely, as there is already a process within Teva where this would normally occur without a Nes (unlike changing a type).
2) That would be changing the type as well as the quantity. If you mean that she should become pregnant again, I don't think that it is possible (see Nidah 27a) nor desirable (see Rashi in Berachos 60a, DH "Shelo Yehei") for his wife to have a boy from a second simultaneous pregnancy.
All the best,
Yaakov Montrose
It seems to me the focus of the question is that changing the quantity is yesh m'ayin and hence more grain is no different from grain to meat.
If so perhaps when refering to quantity Rashi is referring to volume. The number would stay the same but the grains would become larger. That could happen through absorbing more moisture and growing. Since I think that foods are basically 95% water that would in effect give more. Thus the consequence of the tefillah would be that the grains would become more substantial due to the absorption of more moisture.
This seems to be consistent with the entire perek which focuses primarily on our dependence on water and the impact of our spiritual actions on water.
This is also consistent with the specific statement pertaining to the grain which is hiknis limdod. Limdod is measuring dimensions as per the next statement which mentions shakul (weighing) ,madod and minyan (counting). So madod seems to be getting dimensions/volumn. I recall hearing that even in counting its not that the number would change but rather that by virtue of a thing being counted it becomes something which came under man's influence and hence it will not reach its full potential.
Yasher Koach on this great service/avodah!
Yehudah Relis