(R. Yonah citing R. Ba) Suggestion: "Ki She'al Na l'Yamim Asher Hayu Lefanecha'' - perhaps you may ask about before Ma'aseh Bereishis!

Rejection: "L'Min ha'Yom Asher Bara Elokim Adam Al ha'Aretz.''

Suggestion: Perhaps [it is permitted only from creation of man, i.e.] from the sixth day and onwards!

Answer: It says "Rishonim''. Since the Torah added (you may ask about Rishonim, i.e. before creation of man) and diminished (only from creation of man), we learn from Shishi - just like it is one of the six days of creation, also you may bring me (Heter to ask about) what is similar to Shishi.

Suggestion: Perhaps [we include asking to] know what is above Shamayim or below the depth''!

Rejection: "Ul'Miktze ha'Shamayim v'Ad Ketze ha'Shamayim'';

Question: If so (we exclude above Shamayim or below the depth,) what (is "similar to Shishi'', which) we learn from "l'Min ha'Yom Asher Bara Elokim Adam Al ha'Aretz''"!

Answer: Rather, before man was created, you expound and your heart agrees (but you do not say to others). After man was created, you expound and your voice is heard from [one] end of the world to the other.

R. Chiya taught [that we expound simply] l'Min ha'Yom. Bar Kaparah taught [that we expound as if it says] "ul'Min ha'Yom'' (i.e. it only comes to add Heter);

R. Yudah bar Pazi's teaching (8b - initially, the world was water on water) is like Bar Kapara. (He openly expounded about before man was created.) What R. Chiyah taught is like this teaching of [R. Yonah in the name of] R. Ba. (So it seems according to SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL.)

(R. Yonah citing R. Levi): The world was created with the letter Beis. Just like Beis is closed on all sides and open from one side (facing forward), so you are not allowed to expound what is above, what is below, what is before and what is after, only from the day the world was created and onwards.

They say to the Beis "who created you?'', and it shows them a dot (on its roof) and says "this one above''. "And what is His name?'' It shows them a dot in back [of its base, alluding to Aleph in front of it], and says "Hash-m is His name. Adon is his name.'' (MASA D'YERUSHALAYIM - Aleph consists of two Yudim and a Vov. Its total Gematriya is 26, like Shem Havayah. In this world, He is called by Shem Adnus, which begins with Aleph.)

Another matter - why [was the world was created with the letter] Beis? It is [the beginning of the word] Brachah, and not with Aleph, which is [the start] of Arirah (curse).

Hash-m said, I create My world only with Beis, lest all who enter the world say "how can the world stand, and it was created with [a letter that begins] an expression of] curse?! Rather, I create it with Beis, [would begins] an expression of Brachah, and perhaps it will stand.

(R. Avahu citing R. Yochanan): Two worlds were created with two letters - this world and the world to come. One was with Hei, and one was with Yud. What is the source? "Ki b'Kah (Yud and Hei) Hash-m Tzur Olamim.'' We do not know which was created with Hei, and which with Yud;

Rather, since it says "Eleh Toldos ha'Shamayim veha'Aretz b'Hibar'am'' - b'Hei Bar'am, this shows that this world was created with Hei, and the world to come was created with Yud.

Just like Hei is open below, this is a hint for all who enter the world that they descend to the grave. Just like Hei has a dot above, from the time that they descend, they ascend. (HAGAHOS MAIMONIYOS Hilchos Tefilin 1, Os Hei - Rashi says that Hei has a crown on the left of its roof. R. Tam says that the roof sticks out past the leg, like a Dalet.)

Just like Hei is open from every side (i.e. not only below, rather, also from the side - HA'GAON RAV C. KANIEVSKY, SHLITA), so [Hash-m] makes an opening for all to do Teshuvah;

Just like Yud is bent (has a small stature), so all who enter the world [to come] will be bent [amidst shame that they did not attain attributes that others attained] and all faces will turn yellow [amidst awe of Hash-m - MASA D'YERUSHALAYIM].

Once David saw so (that two worlds were created with Hei and Yud), he began to praise with [these] two letters - "Hallelukah Hallelu Avdei Hash-m Hallelu Es Shem Hash-m.''

Question (R. Yudan Nasi, to R. Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): What is the Perush of "Solu la'Rochev ba'Aravos b'Kah Shmo v'Ilzu Lefanav''?

Answer #1 (R. Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): There is no place that is not appointed over (responsible for) its Bei (screams of the oppressed). Who is appointed over the Bei of all of them? It is ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu. B'Kah Shmo, for Yud and Hei is His name.

Rebuttal (and Answer #2 - R. Yudan Nasi): Your Rebbi, R. Lazar, did not say so! Rather, "Ki b'Kah Hash-m Tzur Olamim'' - Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu created His world with two letters. (We explained this like SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL.)

Beis Shamai say, Shamayim was created first, and afterwards the land. Beis Hillel say, the land was created first, and afterwards Shamayim. Each of them brings a reason for their words.

Question: What is the reason for Beis Shamai?

Answer: "B'Reishis Bara Elokim Es ha'Shamayim v'Es ha'Aretz.'' [A parable for this is] a king who made a throne. After he made it, he made his footstool - " ha'Shamayim Kis'i veha'Aretz Hadom Raglai.''

Question: What is the reason for Beis Hillel?

Answer: "B'Yom Asos Hash-m Elokim Eretz v'Shamayim.'' [A parable for this is] a king who made a palace. After he built the lower stories, he made the upper - "Af Yadi Yasdah Eretz vi'Ymini Tipchah Shamayim.''

Support (for Beis Hillel - R. Yudah bar Pazi): "Lefanim ha'Aretz Yasadta u'Ma'aseh Yadecha Shamayim.''

(R. Chaninah): From Beis Shamai's reason for their words, Beis Hillel rebut them [and support themselves]!

What is the reason for Beis Shamai? "B'Reishis Bara Elokim Es ha'Shamayim v'Es ha'Aretz.'' From there, Beis Hillel rebut them! "Veha'Aretz Haysah'' - it already was [before Shamayim]!

(R. Yochanan citing Chachamim): Regarding creation, Shamayim was created first. Regarding completion of creation, the land was first.

Regarding creation, Shamayim was created first - "b'Reishis Bara Elokim [Es ha'Shamayim v'Es ha'Aretz].'' Regarding completion, the land was first - "b'Yom Asos Hash-m Eretz v'Shamayim.''

Shamayim was created on the first [day], according to Beis Shamai. It delayed three days, and made Toldos (derivatives). It delayed [days] one, two three, and on the fourth, "Yehi Me'oros.''

The sea was created on the second, according to Beis Shamai. It delayed three days, and made Toldos - two, three, four, and on the fifth, "Yishretzu ha'Mayim.''

The land was created on the third, according to Beis Shamai. (Its primary creation was vegetation, which sprouted on day three - SHA'AREI TORAS ERETZ YISRAEL, from Bereishis Rabah.) It delayed three days, and made Toldos - three, four, five, and on the sixth, "Totzei ha'Aretz Nefesh Chayah.''

The land was created on the first, according to Beis Hillel. It delayed two days, and made Toldos - one, two, and on the third, "Tadshei ha'Aretz.''

Shamayim was created on the second, according to Beis Hillel. It delayed two days, and made Toldos - two, three, and on the fourth, "Yehi Me'oros.''

The sea was created on the third, according to Beis Hillel. It delayed two days, and made Toldos - three, four, and on the fifth, "Yishretzu ha'Mayim.''

R. Shimon ben Yochai: I am astounded. How could the Avos of the world argue about creation of the world?! I say that Shamayim and the land were created [together] like a frying pan and its cover (they are made together, and then split apart).

What is his source? "Af Yadi Yasdah Eretz vi'Ymini Tipchah Shamayim [Korei Ani Aleihem Ya'amdu Yachdav]'' (HA'GAON RAV C. KANIEVSKY, SHLITA).

(R. Elazar b'Ribi Shimon): According to what my father said, sometimes [the Torah] puts Shamayim before the land, and sometimes it puts the land before Shamayim! Rather, this teaches that they are equal (were made together).