Bava Basra Chart #5
Chart for Bava Basra Daf 84b-86a
IN WHOSE CONTAINER, AND IN WHICH DOMAIN,
IS THE KINYAN OF "MESHICHAH" VALID?
| (A) THE BUYER'S CONTAINER (1) |
(B) THE SELLER'S CONTAINER (2) |
(C) WITHOUT A CONTAINER |
||
| 1 | RESHUS HA'RABIM | Not Koneh (3) | Not Koneh | Not Koneh |
| 2 | SIMTA, OR A CHATZER OWNED BY BOTH | Koneh (4) (5) | Not Koneh (4) | R. Ashi : Koneh (6) R. Zeira: Not Koneh |
| 3 | THE SELLER'S DOMAIN | The seller said "Go and acquire it": Koneh (7) The seller did not tell him to go and acquire it": Safek |
Not Koneh (8) | Not Koneh (8) |
| 4 | THE BUYER'S DOMAIN | Koneh | Safek (9) | Koneh |
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FOOTNOTES:
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(1) The same applies to a container that a third party lent to the seller and buyer in order to make the transaction. Once the container becomes full, it is loaned to the buyer and is like the buyer's container.
(2) The same applies to a container that a third party lent to the seller and buyer in order to make the transaction. As long as the container has not yet been filled, it is loaned to the seller and is like the seller's container.
(3) When Rebbi Yochanan and Reish Lakish say that it is Koneh, the Gemara concludes that they are referring not to an actual Reshus ha'Rabim but rather to a Simta.
(4) This is taught by the Beraisa of "Arba Midos" (85a): "Rishon Rishon Kanah." That is, if the container belongs to the buyer, then the buyer is Koneh each part of the merchandise as it comes into his container. If the container belongs to the seller, then the seller maintains his ownership of each part of the merchandise as it goes into the container.
(5) Tosfos (85b, DH Kegon) explains that the buyer's container is Koneh for him in any place in which the buyer has permission to leave his container, even though that place does not belong to him. Therefore, his container is Koneh for him in a Simta (but not in Reshus ha'Rabim, which is designated as a thoroughfare and not for leaving containers, as the Rashbam says on 84b, DH Shema). The Rashbam explains that a Simta is like a Chatzer of which everyone has a share, and whenever a person places his container there, that place becomes his for that moment (Rashbam 76b, DH Lo Kashya; 86a, DH b'Meshichah).
(6) So says the Gemara (84b). Rebbi Zeira (and Rav Yakov, according to the Rashbam there, DH Ela) argues and holds that one is not Koneh in a Simta without a container.
(7) This is considered as though the seller loaned part of his land to the buyer.
(8) He is not Koneh in such a case until the seller rents to him the area beneath the merchandise (and if the merchandise is in a container, until the seller rents or loans to him the container as well, according to the opinion which holds that the container of the seller in the domain of the buyer is not Koneh). The Mishnah implies that if he does not rent the area beneath the merchandise, he is not Koneh it, even if the seller says to him, "Go and acquire it."
(9) Apparently, even in such a case, if the seller says, "Go and acquire it," the buyer will be Koneh. See above, footnote 7.