More Discussions for this daf
1. Bari v'Shema with and without a Chazakah 2. What is Rebbi Yehudah "Modeh"? 3. Mukas Etz
4. Owning a field for 3 years 5. "Dancing" before the Kalah 6. Migo
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KESUVOS 16

Armin Tuvel asked:

Why does the gemorah start the sugya with Kaitzad merakdim lifnei ha Kalah ?

The Gemorah then talk about talking then singing then dancing ? Dancing is last.

Even more the 3 things of talking singing &dancing are really ways of giving simcha. So the sugya should start Kaitzad MESAMICHIM Es ha Kalah and not Kaitzad merakdim lifnei ha Kalah

Armin Tuvel

The Kollel replies:

The words "Keitzad Merakdin" are not part of the Gemara. They are part of a Beraisa which the Gemara cites. The Beraisa only discusses what to say before the Kalah, and makes no mention of dancing at all. The Maharsha, though, says that "Kalah Na'eh va'Chasudah" is a song, and not just a statement, so it is not just referring to "talking" as you mentioned in your question. Nevertheless, your question remains; it should have said "What do we sing" or "Keitzad Mesamchin." (Chochmas Mano'ach has a few approaches that deal with this, but they are along the lines of Drush.)

The answer might be that if one walks up to a Kalah and tells her, "You are so beautiful and charming!", it is immodest. First of all, the person must look at the Kalah when addressing her to her face - and the Gemara 17a frowns upon such behavior. Second, the person is directing everyone else's attention to examine the beauty of the Kalah.

The solution, then, is to dance before the Kalah and include references to the beauty of the Kalah as part of the song and dance. Since the focus of his actions is the dance, he is not necessarily looking at the Kalah (it would be polite even if he is looking at his feet). In addition, the person is not directing the audiences attention to the Kalah's beauty as much as to the dance.

Of course the Kalah, who is the subject of the praise, revels in the praise despite it being just "part of the dance."

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld