Clarification: This means that min ha'Torah, there is no obligation to bring it ...

Clarification (cont.): Because if there was, we could no longer differentiate between Shabbos and weekday ...

Reason: Seeing as it would then be a Korban which has a fixed time, and one would be obligated even if the Korban Pesach was a large animal and even be'Tum'ah.

Conclusion: Therefore we are forced to say that it is not obligatory and is only brought in order to eat the Pesach 'al ha'Sova' (to satiate oneself after eating the Chagigah).

Yerushalmi: The Riva extrapolates from the Yerushalmi that the obligation to eat the Pesach 'al ha'Sova' is mi'de'Rabbanan, a decree to prevent one from breaking a bone ...

Reason: Because if it was not brought for that reason, seeing as one is hungry to eat the meat surrounding the bones, one would come to break them.

Question: The Ri asks that it is now implied that according to the Rabbanan of ben Teima (whom the Gemara will quote shortly, the Chagigah of the fourteenth is de'Rabbanan, whereas later (in Daf 71.) it is implied that it is min ha'Torah ...

Question (cont.): As the Beraisa states "One may not leave overnight any of the meat ..."; 'This teaches us that the Chagigah of the fourteenth can be eaten for two days!'

Answer: We do indeed find, in the first Perek of Chagigah (Daf 8.) a Tana who holds that it is mi'de'Rabbanan, since Rav Ashi says there 'This is what it comes to teach us - the Chagigah of the fifteenth, yes (is obligatory), the Chagigah of the fourteenth, no!'

Answer (cont.): From which we see that he holds that 'the Chagigah of the fourteenth is not d'Oraysa'.

Consequently #1: It now emerges that, according to ben Teima and the Tana later who hold that the Chagigah of the fourteenth is d'Oraysa, it overrides Shabbos.

Consequently #2: Also the Gemara at the beginning of Tamid Nishchat (above on Daf 59:) which establishes the Sugya there by the fourteenth which falls on Shabbos, now makes sense.

Question: Why does the Gemara not ask that, if it is speaking on Shabbos, how can the Tana permit Toveling Keilim, seeing as we rule that both sprinkling (the ashes of the Parah Adumah) and Toveling are prohibited on Shabbos.

Answer: This is not a Kashya, since we can explain 'he Tovels it a second time' refers to after Yom-Tov, whereas 'the fourteenth and the thirteenth (which fall on Shabbos) are said with reference to when he found them.

Explanation #1: Rashi explains that it referring to the Chagigah of the fourteenth.

Consequently: And that explains why according to ben Teima, even though he quotes another Hekesh above, the Chagigah of the fourteenth does not override Shabbos

Implied Question: Despite the fact that the Torah compares the Chagigah to the Pesach in all regards ...

Implied Question (cont.): In fact, even with regard to (he prohibition of) breaking a bone it would have compared it, were it not for the word "Bo".

Proof: Since Rav Ashi will remark shortly 'Will we query the reason of those who separate from the Chachamim'?

Consequently (concl.): And if ben Teima too, would hold that it is Docheh Shabbos, he would not have been so surprised?

Reason: And the reason for this is as we will learn shortly, from the Pasuk "ve'Chagosem oso ... ", that it is not Docheh Shabbos, even though it is Korban Tzibur, and this also the reason of ben Teima.

Implied Question: Even though the Pasuk of "va'Chagosem oso" is written in connection with the Chagigah of the fifteenth?

Answer: It is a S'vara to compare the Chagigos to one another.

Consequently: In fact, that explains why ben Dursa'i finds it necessary to to learn from "ve'Zavachta Pesach" that they (the Chagigah and the Pesach) are compared with regard to Shechitah (even on Shabbos), to preclude from comparing the Chagigos to each other.

Consequently (cont.): And one cannot learn from the Hekesh of ben Teima, as we explained earlier.

Question #1: Earlier Rav Ashi stated that if it was an obligation, one would bring it on Shabbos - implying that according to ben Teima and the Tana later, who hold that the Chagigah of the fourteenth is Docheh Shabbos.

Question #1 (cont.): If so, why does Rav Ashi exclaim in surprise 'Will we query the reason of those who separate from the Chachamim'?

Question #2: Moreover, one can ask on the one in Perek Hotzi'u lo (Yoma 50.) who cites the principle that 'Whatever has a fixed time overrides Shabbos and Tum'ah, even that of a Yachid ...

Question #2 (cont.): But there is the Chagigah of the fourteenth, which has a fixed time, yet it does not override Shabbos.

Explanation #2: Therefore the Ri explains that the correct P'shat is that it speaks here about the Chagigah of the fifteenth, as is evident from the fact that it quotes the Pasuk of "ve'Chagosem oso" ...

Explanation #2 (cont.): And it makes good sense, seeing as the Gemarain 'Hotzi'u lo' only lists things that have a fixed time of one day but not more.

Explanation #2 (concl.): And the Chagigah of the fifteenth does not fit so well into the category a 'fixed time', seeing as it can be complemented all seven days (of Yom-Tov.)

Explanation #2 (concl.): The Gemara nevertheless asks ''It is certainly a Korban Tzibur?', since even the Chagigah of the fifteenth is considered 'Z'mano Kavu'a'

Source: As the Gemara says in the second Perek of Beitzah (Daf 20:), where Beis Hillel said to Beis Shamai 'This too, is considered 'Kavu'a lahen Z'man', as the Mishnah says 'If Yom-Tov passes, and one has not brought the Chagigah, one is no longer obligated to bring it.

Refuted Question: One cannot ask that if so, why did ben Dursa'i find it necessary to separate and distance himself in order to fall under the category of 'Derech Rechokah'? Why could he not bring his Chagigah all seven days,as we will learn shortly?

Refutation: The Ri explains that perhaps ben Dursa'i holds that, since the Chagigah of the fifteenth is compared to the Pesach, we see that it does not have Tashlumin.

Implied Question: And the reason that ben Dursa'i establishes the Pasuk of ve'Zavachta Pesach by the Chagigah of the fifteenth and not of the fourteenth ....

Answer: Is because he holds that the Chagigah of the fourteenth is not Docheh Shabbos.

Clarification: He mentions 'Korban Tzibur' because there is a Tana in Perek Yesh Korbanos (Temurah14.) who considers that the criterion - as we learn there in a Mishnah 'There are some things that pertain to Korb'nos Tzibur which do not pertain to Korb'nos Yachid - that the former override Shabbos and Tum'ah... '.

Different Opinion: In Perek Hotzi'u lo however (Yoma 50.) the Gemara says that 'Whatever has a fixed time overrides Shabbos and Tum'ah, even it is a Korban Yachid'.

Question: Here they refer to it as a Korban Tzibur - since it is brought 'bi'Chenufyah' (Everybody brings it simultaneously), and likewise in Yoma (Daf 51.); Whereas in Chagigah (Daf 6.), the Gemara calls it a Korban Yachid?

Question: So what if it is a Korban Tzibur, asks the Rashba, considering that, as the Gemara explains in 'Keitzad Tzolin' (later, on Daf 77.), Pesach, Tamid, the goats of Rosh Chodesh, the Omer and the Sh'tei ha'Lechem all require individual Pesukim to teach us that they are Docheh Shabbos.

Question (cont.): So from where do we know it here?

Answer: The Ri answers that Chagigah is included in the other Korbanos of Yom-Tov ...

Source: Since the Pasuk "va'Chagosem" is written at the end of Parshas Pinchas.

Clarification: It seems to the Ri that it speaks even if one initially declared them Hekdesh and Shechted them as Chagigos Chamishah-Asar ...

Reason: Because if it was speaking where one Shechted them merely as Shelamim, one would not be Yotzei one's Chagigah even if one Shechted them on Yom-Tov ...

Reason (concl.): Seeing as anything that is brought as a Chovah (such as a Chagigah) can only be brought from Chulin.

Conclusion: One therefore needs to say that they were declared Hekdesh and Shechted as Chagigos ...

Reason: Because since it is a Davar she'be'Chovah and may only come from Chulin, so that one is obligated to declare them Hekdesh accordingly, it follows that one should also Shecht them at a time when they are fit to be brought as Chagigos.

Proof: Since the Gemara asked above 'Seven? But there are eight?

Proof (cont.): From here we see that the Chagigah ... '.

Conclusion: Now if one was able to Shecht them on ErevYom-Tov, there would still be eight days.

Question: The Riva asks that the Pasuk "ve'Zavachta Shelamim" is speaking, not about Simchas Yom-Tov, but about the ceremony on Har Eival. So how can one learn Yom-Tov from there?

Answer: It is possible to explain that the Pasuk is referring to all cases, that one always needs to Shecht Shelamim when there is Simchah.