NIDAH 65 - Dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Lily (Leah bas Pinchas) Kornfeld, who passed away on 8 Av 5765, by their daughter Shifra and family.

1)

A BOGERES GETS ONE NIGHT

(a)

Question (Beraisa): A case occurred in which Rebbi gave to a girl (whose husband was usually away) four nights over the course of a year. (We assume that three months separated between successive nights.)

1.

Question: What was the case?

2.

Answer #1: All four nights were while she was a Ketanah.

3.

Rejection: The Mishnah says that a Ketanah gets until the wound heals!

4.

Answer #2: All four nights were during Na'arus.

5.

Rejection: Shmuel taught that there are only six months between Na'arus and Bagrus.

6.

Question: Perhaps there are never less than six months, but there can be more than six months!

7.

Rejection: Shmuel said only.

8.

Answer #3: Two nights were during Katnus, and two nights were during Na'arus.

9.

Objection: This is unlike Rav!

i.

Question (R. Chinena bar Shalmiya): If her time to see arrived while she was married, what is the law?

ii.

Answer (Rav): All Bi'os during Katnus count like one. She gets the remainder (three) of the four nights given to a Na'arah.

10.

Answer #4: One night was during Katnus, two were during Na'arus, and one was during Bagrus.

11.

Summation of question: If a Bogeres normally gets more than one night, we understand this. Just like Bi'os during Katnus deduct (one) from the nights given to a Na'arah, Bi'os before Bagrus deduct from the nights given to a Bogeres;

i.

However, if a Bogeres normally gets only one night, Bi'os before Bagrus should deduct. She should only get one Bi'ah (and not the whole night) during Bagrus!

(b)

Answer (and Answer #5 to Question a:1): One night was during Katnus, and three were during Na'arus;

1.

Only two months separated between successive nights (unlike our assumption. Tosfos - perhaps there were more Bi'os during Katnus, but they all count like one. We were not forced to retract. We could have said that there were Bi'os at the beginning, middle and end of Na'arus. The Gemara prefers to explain that the spacing between Bi'os of Na'arus equals the delay from the last (possible) Bi'ah of Katnus until the first Bi'ah of Na'arus - Tosfos ha'Rosh.)

(c)

Minyamin Saksana'ah was heading to Shmuel's area. He intended to rule like Rav (and give the entire first night to a Bogeres) even though she previously saw, for Rav did not distinguish. He died on the way.

(d)

Shmuel applied to Rav the verse, "Lo Ye'uneh la'Tzadik Kol Aven." (Hash-m did not allow a mistaken ruling to come due to Rav.)

(e)

(R. Chinena bar Shalmiya): Once one's teeth fall out (he gets old), his food is reduced. (Maharsha - therefore, one should save money, and not give too much to his children. Ya'avetz - therefore, one must request (extra) mercy at this time. This applies to an Am ha'Aretz, but a Chacham's Torah supports him in his old age.)

2)

ONE WHO SAW BEFORE MARRIAGE

(a)

(Mishnah): If she saw blood before she was married...

(b)

(Beraisa - Beis Hillel): If she saw blood before she was married, we give her the first night, i.e. a full Onah.

(c)

Question: What is a full Onah?

(d)

Answer (R. Shimon ben Gamliel): It is a night and half a day.

(e)

Question: It is less than this!

1.

(Beraisa): To be Metaher a winepress or olivepress (used with Tamei wine or oil), one must rinse the boards, brooms and tub (used to press, gather and hold the grapes or olives);

65b----------------------------------------65b

2.

Akalim (nets of poles tied around grapes or olives being pressed) of shoots or of hemp must be dried;

3.

If they are of marsh reeds, one must wait 12 months before using them.

4.

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, one must wait until the next season of pressing grapes or olives.

5.

Question: R. Shimon ben Gamliel does not argue with the first Tana! (There is one pressing season per year, after the harvest.)

6.

Answer: There can be more (or less) than 12 months if the grapes or olives are late (or early) to ripen.

7.

R. Yosi says, one may be Metaher them immediately through Hag'alah (putting them in boiling water), or (pouring over them) scalding water in which olives were cooked.

8.

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, R. Yosi says that one puts them under a flow of water from a pipe or in a spring for an Onah;

i.

We are Metaher the same way that we Kasher from Yayin Nesech.

9.

Objection: This Beraisa taught how to be Metaher, not how to Kasher!

10.

Correction: Rather, we Kasher from Yayin Nesech the same way that we are Metaher.

11.

Question: How much is an Onah?

12.

Answer #1 (R. Chiya bar Aba citing R. Yochanan): It is a day or a night.

13.

Answer #2 (Rabah bar bar Chanah citing R. Yochanan): It is half a day and half a night.

14.

(Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): Both refer to 12 hours. R. Chiya bar Aba discusses Nisan and Tishrei (when the nights and days are equal), and Rabah bar bar Chanah discusses winter or summer (when the nights and days are unequal).

15.

Summation of question: Why did R. Shimon ben Gamliel say (regarding Besulah) that Onah is a night and half a day?

(f)

Answer #1: Indeed, he means a day or night of Nisan or Tishrei, or half a day and half a night in winter or summer.

(g)

Answer #2: Every wedding is delayed until they agree on (stipulations in) the Kesuvah and sign it. (We assume that half the night will pass before they have Bi'ah.)

3)

THE HALACHAH

(a)

(Rav and Shmuel): The Halachah is, they must separate after Bi'as Mitzvah. (This is even for a Ketanah, and even if she did not see blood.)

(b)

Question (Rav Chisda - Beraisa): A case occurred in which Rebbi gave to a girl four nights over the course of a year.

1.

Question (Rava): Why didn't you ask from our Mishnah? (Even if it discusses only a girl who already saw, and even if you will distinguish between a Ketanah who already saw and one who did not (unlike Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak above), in any case Beis Hillel always allows at least the entire first night!)

2.

Answer: Rav Chisda prefers to ask from the Beraisa, for it discusses a ruling followed in practice.

(c)

Answer: Rav and Shmuel hold like Raboseinu:

1.

(Beraisa - Raboseinu): They voted and retracted to say that he must separate after Bi'as Mitzvah. (Rosh - everyone gets the most stringent law (a Bogeres who already saw), lest people not distinguish. Rashba - we are stringent, lest she became a Nidah.)

(d)

(Ula): R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish delved into Tinokes (Rosh - girls of all ages, whether or not they already saw; Rashi - the Mishnayos of our Perek), and came out empty (the Halachah is not like the Mishnayos), like a fox who entered a furrow (to find food, but it only got dust on its feet);

1.

They concluded that he must separate after Bi'as Mitzvah.

(e)

Question (R. Aba): If so (if we are concerned for Dam Nidah), a Ba'al Nefesh (meticulously scrupulous person) should not even finish the Bi'ah!

(f)

Answer (Rav Ashi): (It is a mere stringency mid'Rabanan to separate after Bi'as Mitzvah, and) if we forbid him to finish the Bi'ah, he might refrain altogether (out of fear of Bi'ah with a Nidah)!

(g)

(Beraisa): If any woman was bleeding from before the end of four nights or one night (given to her) until afterwards, she must check herself. (If the blood changed color, we attribute the new blood to Nidah);

(h)

In all cases, R. Meir is stringent like Beis Shamai. (He requires her to check after the period that Beis Shamai gives to her);

(i)

In all cases when Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel argue, we follow the appearance of the blood. Dam Nidah is red, dirty, and comes from the Makor. Dam Besulim is not red or dirty, and it comes from the walls.

(j)

(R. Yitzchak bar R. Yosi): The Seifa is like R. Meir. Chachamim say that Dam Nidah and Dam Besulim look alike.

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF