KESUVOS 110 (5 Sivan) - Dedicated l'Zecher Nishmas Reb Chaim Aryeh ben Aharon Stern Z'L by Shmuel Gut of Brooklyn, N.Y.
 

12th CYCLE DEDICATION
KESUVOS 106-110 - Dedicated in memory of Max (Meir Menachem ben Shlomo ha'Levi) Turkel, by his children Eddie and Lawrence and his wife Jean Turkel/Rafalowicz. Max was a warm and loving husband and father and is missed dearly by his family and friends. His Yahrzeit is 5 Teves.

1)

(a)According to Admon, if Reuven produces a Shtar Chov on Shimon and Shimon produces a Shtar, dated later, which states that Reuven sold him a field, Shimon can say 'You should not have sold me your field before claiming your debt'. What are practical ramifications of Admon's statement?

(b)What do the Chachamim say?

(c)Even the Chachamim agree with Admon in a case where it is customary to pay for the field before writing the Shtar. Why is that?

(d)So they must argue in a place where it is customary to write the Shtar first and to pay later. What is then the basis of their Machlokes?

1)

(a)According to Admon, if Reuven produces a Shtar Chov on Shimon and Shimon produces a Shtar, dated later, which states that Reuven sold him a field, Shimon can say to Reuven 'You should not have sold me your field before claiming your debt'. Consequently - we consider the Shtar Chov a fake.

(b)According to the Chachamim - Reuven acted cleverly by selling him a field which he can now claim as collateral.

(c)Even the Chachamim will agree with Admon however, in a case where it is customary to pay for a field before writing the Shtar - because then, the seller should simply have held on to the payment for the field as payment of the loan.

(d)So they must argue in a place where it is customary to write the Shtar first and to pay later. Admon now holds - that Reuven should have made a Moda'ah in front of witnesses (that he is only selling the field for the collateral; whereas the Chachamim hold - that he is better off not to do so, because people tend to talk, and in no time at all, his intentions will reach the ears of Shimon, as we explained above.

2)

(a)According to Admon in our Mishnah, if two people produce a Shtar Chov on one another, the one can say to the other, 'If I owed you money, how could you borrow money from me'? What are the practical ramifications of Admon's statement?

(b)What do the Chachamim say?

2)

(a)According to Admon in our Mishnah, if two people produce a Shtar Chov on one another, the one can say to the other, 'If I owed you money, how could you borrow money from me?' In other words - the first Shtar must be a fake.

(b)The Chachamim say that the Shtar is valid and each one is entitled to claim his debt.

3)

(a)Rav Nachman holds that if two people claim the same sum of money from one another, each one may claim. What does Rav Sheshes say?

(b)In which case will Rav Nachman concede to Rav Sheshes?

(c)So we try to establish the Machlokes when one of them has Beinonis, and the other one Ziburis. Given that a creditor normally claims Beinonis, what is then the basis of their Machlokes?

(d)Rav Sheshes holds that the Ba'al Ziburis will claim his debtor's Beinonis, who will then claim it back. What does Rav Nachman hold?

3)

(a)Rav Nachman holds that if two people claim the same sum of money from one another, each one may claim. Rav Sheshes says - 'Hafuchei Matrasa Lamah Li' (Why bother?)

(b)Rav Nachman will concede to Rav Sheshes - in a case where both of them own the same quality fields, either 'Idis, Beinonis or Ziburis', because then one will claim the field, and the other one simply claim it back.

(c)So we try to establish the Machlokes when one of them has Beinonis , and the other one Ziburis. Given that a creditor normally claims Beinonis - the basis of their Machlokes is whether one reckons the Beinonis of the debtor (whatever is his Beinonis [Rav Nachman]) or whether one reckons the Beinonis of the world at large, irrespective of what the debtor has (Rav Sheshes).

(d)Rav Sheshes holds that the Ba'al Ziburis will claim his debtor's Beinonis, who will then claim it back - whereas according to Rav Nachman, after the Ba'al Ziburis has claimed his debtor's Beinonis, the second creditor will only be able to claim Ziburis, since that is the Din when the debtor has Beinonis and Ziburis (seeing as his Beinonis is really his Idis).

4)

(a)We query the above explanation however, because it assumes that the owner of the Ziburis claimed first. What would be the problem if the owner of the Beinonis claimed first, according to Rav Nachman?

(b)So we establish their Machlokes when they both claimed simultaneously (in which case, either could stake his claim first) and it speaks when the one had Idis and Beinonis, and the other one, Ziburis, and they argue over the same point as in the previous answer. Why, according to Rav Nachman, is it not Hafuchei Matrasa? Why will the Ba'al Ziburis stand to gain whichever one puts in his claim first?

(c)How does Rav Nachman establish the Chachamim in our Mishnah, to reconcile Rav Sheshes opinion with them?

(d)Why must it have been the first loan that was for five years and the second one that was for ten (and not vice-versa)?

4)

(a)We query the above explanation however, because it assumes that the owner of the Ziburis claimed first. If, according to Rav Nachman, the owner of the Beinonis claimed first - then he would claim the other man's Ziburis, who would claim it back (Hafuchei Matrasa Lamah Li). (According to Rav Sheshes too, there would seemingly be a problem, because the first man would claim Ziburis, whereas the second one would claim Beinonis - though for some reason, the Gemara only asks on Rav Nachman).

(b)So we establish their Machlokes when they both claimed simultaneously (in which case either could stake his claim first) and it speaks when the one had Idis and Beinonis, and the other one, Ziburis, and they argue over the same point as in the previous answer. According to Rav Nachman, it is not Hafuchei Matrasa - because if the former one claimed the Ziburis first, then the second one will claim Beinonis; whereas if the latter one claimed first, he will now have Ziburis and Beinonis, and his creditor will only be able to claim from him Ziburis.

(c)To reconcile Rav Sheshes opinion with the Chachamim in our Mishnah ('Zeh Govah ... v'Zeh Govah ... ') Rav Nachman establishes the Mishnah when one of the debts was for ten years, and the other one for five.

(d)It must have been the first loan that was for five years and the second one that was for ten (and not vice-versa) - because if the first debt was not due to be paid for another five years, how could the first debtor say to the second one 'If I owed you money how could you then borrow money from me?', according to Admon.

5)

(a)In any event, there is a problem whether the five-year time period has expired or not. What is the problem according to ...

1. ... the Rabanan, if the five-year time period has expired?

2. ... Admon, if it has not?

(b)So we establish their Machlokes on the last day of the five-year period. What is then the basis of their Machlokes?

(c)Rami bar Chama reconciles Rav Sheshes with our Mishnah by establishing the Mishnah when one of the two claimants is a Yasom. Now a Yasom may claim Metaltelin from the debtor, but one cannot claim from the Metaltelin of Yesomim. Consequently, 'Zeh Govah, v'Zeh Govah' really mean 'Zeh Govah v'Zeh Ra'uy Ligevos'. Rava queries this from the Lashon of the Mishnah, which says 'v'Zeh Govah' and not 'v'Zeh Ra'uy Ligvos'. What else does he ask on Rami bar Chama?

(d)Rava bases his Kashya on Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah. What did Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah say about Yesomim who claimed land for their father's debt?

5)

(a)In any event, there is a problem whether the five-year time period has expired or not. The problem according to ...

1. ... the Rabanan, if the five-year time period has expired, is - how can they argue with Admon, since he is obviously right?

2. ... Admon if it has not, is - how can he argue with the Rabanan?

(b)So we establish their Machlokes on the last day of the five-year period. The basis of their Machlokes then is - whether a person tends to take out a loan for one day or not: Admon holds that he does not; the Chachamim holds that he does.

(c)Rami bar Chama reconciles Rav Sheshes with our Mishnah by establishing the Mishnah when one of the two claimants is a Yasom. Now a Yasom may claim Metaltelin from the debtor, but one cannot claim from the Metaltelin of Yesomim. Consequently, 'Zeh Govah, ve Zeh Govah' really mean 'Zeh Govah v'Zeh Ra'uy Ligvos'. Rava queries this from the Lashon of the Mishnah, which says 'v'Zeh Govah' and not 'v'Zeh Ra'uy Ligvos'. He also asks - why can one not give the Yesomim land and then claim it back from them?

(d)Rava bases his Kashya on Rav Nachman Amar Rabah bar Avuhah. - who said that if Yesomim who claimed land for their father's debt, their Ba'al Chov may claim it from them (as we learned in the tenth Perek).

6)

(a)What sort of fields may one claim from Yesomim? Does this ruling apply even according to the opinion of Rav Sheshes, who holds 'b'Shel Kol Adam Hen Shamin'?

(b)Based on that premise, we suggest that our Mishnah might be speaking about a case where the Yesomim have Ziburis and the other Ba'al Chov has Idis and Beinonis? How would the Chachamim's statement 'Zeh Govah ... v'Zeh Govah ... ' then work?

(c)On what grounds do we reject this answer too?

6)

(a)From Yesomim - one may claim only Ziburis, even according to the opinion of Rav Sheshes, who holds 'b'Shel Kol Adam Hein Shamin'.

(b)Based on that premise, we suggest that our Mishnah might be speaking about a case where the Yesomim have Ziburis and the other Ba'al Chov, Idis and Beinonis. The Chachamim's statement 'Zeh Govah ... v'Zeh Govah ... ' will work - because the Ba'al Chov will now claim Ziburis, and the Yesomim, Beinonis.

(c)We reject this answer too however - on the basis of the fact that if one did claim from Yesomim Beinonis, one may retain it.

7)

(a)What are the three lands discussed by our Mishnah with regard to marriage? What is their significance in this regard?

(b)What does the Tana say about a man forcing his wife to move from ...

1. ... a town or city in one of the lands to a town or city in one of the other lands?

2. ... one town or city in one of the lands to another?

(c)According to the Tana Kama, a man or a woman can force his spouse to move from a less comfortable area to a more comfortable one. What does Raban Shimon ben Gamliel say? What statement did Shmuel later make that explained Raban Shimon ben Gamliel's opinion?

(d)What are the advantages of living in ...

1. ... a city (which is larger than a town on account of its shopping facilities) over living in a town?

2. ... a town over living in a city?

7)

(a)The three lands discussed by our Mishnah with regard to marriage - are Yehudah, Ever ha'Yarden and the Galil. Their significance in this regard is - that a husband cannot force his wife to move from one to the other.

(b)A man ...

1. ... cannot force his wife to move from a town or city in one of the lands to a town or city in one of the other lands.

2. ... can however, force his wife to move from a town or city in one of the lands to another.

(c)According to the Tana Kama, a man or a woman can force his spouse to move from a less comfortable area to a more comfortable one, but not vice-versa. Raban Shimon ben Gamliel says - that either way, he cannot force her, because any major change in a person's lifestyle can cause him to become ill, which is why Shmuel later made the statement 'Shinuy Veses Techilas Choli' (a radical change from what one is used to, causes illness).

(d)The advantages of living in ...

1. ... a city (which is larger than a town on account of its shopping facilities) over living in a town are - that a. that the shopping and business opportunities are better, and b. that everything is available there.

2. ... a town over living in a city is - that there is more space, so people have gardens and the air is more pure.

110b----------------------------------------110b

8)

(a)What do we learn from the Pasuk in Nechemyah, which praised the people who volunteered to come and live in the city of Yerushalayim?

(b)Why did ben Sira say "Kol Yemei Ani Ra'im"? Why did he not take into account Shabbos and Yom Tov, when even the poor eat well?

(c)And what did he mean when he said that the poor man had his vineyards on top of the mountains? Why is that a disadvantage?

8)

(a)We learn from the Pasuk in Nechemyah, which praised the people who volunteered to come and live in the city of Yerushalayim - that there are serious disadvantages in living in a city.

(b)ben Sira said "Kol Yemei Ani Ra'im" in spite of Shabbos and Yom Tov, when even the poor eat well - because of Shmuel, who said 'Shinuy Veses Techilas Choli'(which means that they will suffer the following day).

(c)And when he said that the poor man had his vineyards on top of the mountains - he was referring to the fact that, when one fertilizes a vineyard on top of a mountain, most of the fertilizer drops into the vineyards below.

9)

(a)Our Mishnah permits anyone to force his family to move from Chutz la'Aretz to Eretz Yisrael, on the one hand, and not to move out of it, on the other. Does this apply to women too?

(b)What does the Tana say about Yerushalayim?

(c)Given that the money of Keputki is heavier than that of Eretz Yisrael (and is therefore more valuable), what sort of currency will a man have to pay if he married his wife ...

1. ... in Eretz Yisrael and divorced her in Keputki?

2. ... in Keputki and divorced her in Eretz Yisrael, according to the Tana Kama? ...

3. ... according to Raban Shimon ben Gamliel?

9)

(a)Our Mishnah permits anyone to force his family to move from Chutz la'Aretz to Eretz Yisrael, on the one hand, and not to move out of it, on the other - women, as well as men.

(b)The Tana gives Yerushalayim vis-a-vis the rest of Eretz Yisrael the same Din as Eretz Yisrael vis-a-vis Chutz la'Aretz, in this regard.

(c)Given that the money of Keputki is heavier than that of Eretz Yisrael (and is therefore more valuable), if a man married his wife ...

1. ... in Eretz Yisrael and divorced her in Keputki - he will have to pay the currency of Eretz Yisrael.

2. ... in Keputki and divorced her in Eretz Yisrael - he will nevertheless have to pay her the money of Eretz Yisrael, according to the Tana Kama ...

3. ... the money of Keputki, according to Raban Shimon ben Gamliel.

10)

(a)When the Tana of our Mishnah says 'ha'Kol Ma'alin l'Eretz Yisrael, what does 'ha'Kol' come to include?

(b)What does it come to include, according to those who insert Eved Ivri in the Mishnah, specifically?

(c)What does 'ha'Kol Ma'alin li'Yerushalayim' come to include?

(d)Why does the Tana find it necessary to add 'v'Ein ha'Kol Motzi'in Mimenu' to include the same thing? Why is it not obvious, once we know that Yerushalayim is like Eretz Yisrael in this regard?

10)

(a)When the Tana of our Mishnah says 'ha'Kol Ma'alin l'Eretz Yisrael - 'ha'Kol' comes to include an Eved Ivri, who is obligated to move to Eretz Yisrael with his master.

(b)According to those who insert Eved Ivri in the Mishnah specifically - it comes to authorize him to move his family even from a more comfortable area to a less comfortable one.

(c)Likewise, 'ha'Kol Ma'alin li'Yerushalayim' comes to include - even moving them to less comfortable from a more comfortable one.

(d)The Tana finds it necessary to add 'v'Ein ha'Kol Motzi'in Mimenu' to include the same thing, despite the fact that it is obvious once we know that Yerushalayim is like Eretz Yisrael in this regard - because it mentioned it in the Reisha.

11)

(a)According to the Tana Kama of our Mishnah, on what grounds do we always follow the currency of Eretz Yisrael, whether the husband married his wife there or whether he divorced her there? Surely, we should always go either after the place where he married her (because that is where he obligated himself), or after the place where he divorced her?

(b)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel always goes after the place where he married her. On which key principle is his ruling based? What is his major bone of contention with the Tana Kama?

(c)If someone produces a Shtar Chov which was written in Bavel, the debtor must pay with Babylonian currency; if it was written in Eretz Yisrael, then he must pay Eretz Yisrael currency. What sort of currency will he have to pay if no country is mentioned in the Shtar?

(d)What does the Tana mean when he concludes 'Mah she'Ein Ken bi'Kesubah'? Is he referring to the Reisha of the Beraisa or to the Seifa?

11)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah always follow the currency of Eretz Yisrael, whether the husband married his wife there, or whether he divorced her there (neither following the place where he married her [because that is where he obligated himself], nor after the place where he divorced her) - because he is not sure which one to follow, and since he holds that the entire Kesubah is only mid'Rabanan, he is lenient both ways.

(b)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel always goes after the place where he married her. This is because he holds 'Kesubah d'Oraisa', in which case he treats it like every other debt (which follows the place where the Shtar was written, as we shall now see).

(c)If someone produces a Shtar Chov which was written in Bavel, the debtor must pay with Babylonian currency; if it was written in Eretz Yisrael, then he must pay Eretz Yisrael currency. If no country is mentioned in the Shtar - then the debtor pays according to the currency of the place where the Shtar is produced.

(d)When the Tana concludes 'Mah she'Ein Ken bi'Kesubah" - he is referring to the Reisha of the Beraisa, which obligates the debtor to pay the currency of the town where the Shtar was written (and he comes to preclude from the opinion of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel, who, we just learned, holds that Kesubah has the same Din as any Shtar Chov).

12)

(a)If no denomination of currency is mentioned, just silver, the debtor may pay the creditor any denomination of silver coin that he wishes. How do we know that the Shtar is not referring to ...

1. ... pieces of silver?

2. ... Perutos (so he should be able to give him copper Perutos or silver to the value of a hundred copper Perutos?

12)

(a)If no denomination of currency is mentioned, just silver, the debtor may pay the creditor any demonination of silver coin that he wishes. We know that the Shtar is not referring to ...

1. ... pieces of silver - because the Beraisa speaks when the word 'coins' appears in the Shtar.

2. ... Perutos (so he should be able to give him copper Perutos or silver to the value of a hundred copper Perutos - because nobody manufactures Perutos of silver.

13)

(a)What do we learn from the Pasuk in Behar "Lases Lachem es Eretz Kena'an, Liheyos Lachem l'Elokim"?

(b)What are the serious ramifications of this statement regarding living in Eretz Yisrael?

(c)The Pasuk cannot be taken literally. What exactly does it mean?

(d)What did David ha'Melech declare when he was forcibly driven out of Eretz Yisrael, that bears this out?

13)

(a)We learn from the Pasuk "Lases Lachem es Eretz Kena'an, Liheyos Lachem l'Elokim"- that if someone lives outside Eretz Yisrael, it is as if he has no G-d.

(b)The serious ramifications of this statement are - that one should rather live in Eretz Yisrael in a town which is inhabited mainly by Nochrim, that in a Jewish town in Chutz la'Aretz.

(c)The Pasuk cannot be taken literally. What it really means is - that someone who lives outside Eretz Yisrael is considered as if he was serving idols.

(d)When David ha'Melech was forcibly driven out of Eretz Yisrael - he declared " Because they have driven me out today from being connected with the inheritance of Hash-m, saying 'Go and serve other gods' ", bearing out what we just said.

14)

(a)Why was Rebbi Zeira careful to keep out of Rav Yehudah's sight, after making his decision to move to Eretz Yisrael?

(b)According to Rav Yehudah, the Pasuk in Yirmeyahu "Bavelah Yavo'u, v'Shamah Yiheyu" places an Isur on moving out of Bavel, even in order to go to Eretz Yisrael (in times of Galus). What does it mean according to Rebbi Zeira?

(c)Rav Yehudah, who agrees with the previous Derashah, learns the Isur of moving out of Bavel, from the Pasuk is Shir-ha'Shirim "Hishba'ti Eschem Bnos Yerushalayim, Im Ta'iru ... ". What does Rebbi Zeira learn from there?

14)

(a)Once Rebbi Zeira had made his decision to move to Eretz Yisrael, he was careful to keep out of Rav Yehudah's sight, because in Rav Yehudah's opinion - someone who leaves Bavel during the period of Galus, even if it is to go to Eretz Yisrael, transgresses an Aseh.

(b)According to Rav Yehudah, the Pasuk in Yirmeyahu "Bavelah Yavo'u, v'Shamah Yiheyu" places an Isur on moving out of Bavel, even in order to go to Eretz Yisrael (in times of Galus). According to Rebbi Zeira - it means that the Klei Shares must remain there.

(c)Rav Yehudah, who agrees with the previous Derashah, learns the Isur of moving out of Bavel, from the Pasuk is Shir-ha'Shirim "Hishba'ti Eschem Bnos Yerushalayim, Im Ta'iru ...". Rebbi Zeira learns from there - that Yisrael are not permitted to take Eretz Yisrael by force until the days of Mashi'ach.

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